Your Opinion on Vista?

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Tripp
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by Tripp »

I'm constantly installing and uninstall programs, downloading and deleting and other things that bog my computer down. Obviously you'll say defrag, disc clean, virus scanner, etc etc. I DO this in between reformatting but I just like a fresh installment of Windows every few months, that's just me.

And there is an activation limit on XP which about 25 I believe? Vista is the one where it focuses on hardware changes.

And the call takes longer then five minutes, let me reassure you on this. You have to tell an automated voice system your activation code or whatever and then wait for a "representative" whom lives in India and can hardly speak correct English. After this, he asks you questions like "Have you ever installed XP on another machine" and other things along those lines. Once all that is done, he gives you the 40 digit long code to enter. Now, when you're speaking with someone who you can't hardly understand, it's crucial you get those numbers right...

I think Microsoft worries WAY too much about piracy because in the end, piracy will live forever. No one or any company(s) will ever stop it. So why not focus on making the life of a legit user easier instead of trying to combat piracy and ruin it for the real customers.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by god0fgod »

AdamR wrote:give me a few examples of what Microsoft has copied and I'll provide counter arguments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Z ... re=related

This is a funny video to watch BTW.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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god0fgod wrote:
AdamR wrote:give me a few examples of what Microsoft has copied and I'll provide counter arguments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Z ... re=related

This is a funny video to watch BTW.
LOL, I did enjoy that video and I don't know if anyone remembers but people found out MS used a pirated copy of Sony Acid Pro I believe it was.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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god0fgod wrote:
AdamR wrote:give me a few examples of what Microsoft has copied and I'll provide counter arguments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Z ... re=related

This is a funny video to watch BTW.
Humorous? Yes.

1) Expand/collapse arrows. Applications and websites have had these for years and they've been widely accepted as a "standard." Why not use them? No argument.

2) Windows Calendar/Photo Gallery - Windows 1.0 came with a Calendar. Any type of photo manager works extremely similar to the way both Photo Gallery and iPhoto operate (such as Picasa). No argument.

3) Spotlight/Windows Search. Microsoft suggested the idea of "instant search" in 1994 but regarded it, correctly, as impractical due to hardware limitations. Secondly, Windows search was fully documented and the underlying APIs and functions were implemented into the Alpha builds of Vista long before Tiger. No argument.

4) Gadgets/Widgets. See Konfabulator. And if we want to be stay strictly in line with the definition of a "widget," we must credit Xerox with the invention. Secondly, Sidebar was first present in Windows 98. Thirdly, Sidebar/Gadgets were implemented in Vista in the early Alpha stages in 2002/2003, long before Tiger was released with Dashboard. No argument.

5) Chess. I won't even begin to comment on this one except ask this one question: How many game packs come with Solitare as a result of it being present in Windows? ;) No argument.

Once again, all software companies "copy" ideas from each other and innovate and build upon these ideas.

- Adam
Last edited by AdamR on Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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LOL, that's how Windows started...stealing from Apple.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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Drugs wrote:LOL, that's how Windows started...stealing from Apple.
More like Xerox, who invented to the first true GUI. Both Apple and Microsoft used Xerox's idea for their OS's. ;)

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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Sort of...Apple stole it from Xerox and then MS stole it from Apple.
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god0fgod
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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From what I can see Xerox started developing GUIs. Of course apple are going to attempt the same. A GUI is important and it wasn't copying. I can't see any direct copying from Xerox's operating systems and apple's at that time.

It's obvious that Microsoft copied Mac OSX's features. And almost to the dot in some cases. Microsoft have been living off apple for years.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by SamG »

It's one thing to say everybody copies, it's very much another thing altogether to be a company that prides itself on being an innovator and world class technology leader and yet copies just like everybody else.

But I'm not going to get started on that. I will say that had Coleco and Atari and Commodore and companies like them, where innovation was reality and not slogan, been able to survive, we wouldn't even be having this "discussion." :roll:
AdamR wrote:As far as I'm aware, activation is not based off "X" amount of times. I've activated my copy of Windows XP Pro probably 10-12 times by now, and not once have I had to make "the phone call."
I don't know the actual values, but as I understand it, there is an X number of times in Y timeframe trigger to the phone call. Someone told me the timeframe is six months, but I don't know if that's accurate. My experience suggests that the number of reinstalls in Y timeframe is likely under a half dozen. For most ordinary purposes, I think the limits unobtrusive, and my understanding is that there is no actual limit on the number of times you can reinstall XP.

It is true that the phone call seems pretty painless even when it does come to that. I've only had to do it a couple of times, and there were no problems.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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SamG wrote:It's one thing to say everybody copies, it's very much another thing altogether to be a company that prides itself on being an innovator and world class technology leader and yet copies just like everybody else.
Amen

And from my understanding, it's just a flat number of activations. When I asked if they could reset it they simply said no. They never explained to me to if you activate it X number of times in a Y timeframe it would do that. They just simply said no they couldn't reset it or how it actually works.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by SamG »

It is, of course, very possible that I'm wrong. My recollections of my experience are not always ... reliable. I recall a case where I had to call and activiate a copy of XP that I'd been experimenting with. I did a little research on what triggers the activation message, and it was then that I was told that it had to do with excessive activations in a given timeframe. Once that timeframe expires, you can reinstall normally, and that's what I recall being the case.

In any event, I've routinely installed retail XP on succesive machines for a non-profit as new hardware gets donated (we're always on the bleeding edge of obsolete :) ), and I've never had to call to activate in those cases. Only when it all happened in a relatively short amount of time, such as days or a few weeks.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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You might be right but it would have been nice had they explained that to me because I had to call about the next 7-8 times I reformatted. And this happened after I used it for like 2 years but at one time I did reformat a few times in a few weeks because something kept messing up and I kept reformatting and trying different things. That could very well be the case but like I said, they never actually explained it to me. Just simple said they couldn't "reset" my activations or why it was caused to begin with.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by symbolicpixel »

Something about Apple that concerns me. Microsoft knows that they can be more strict on piracy crackdown on Windows than Apple could be on Mac OS. If this is the case, then why did some pesky attorney send documentation to The Pirate Bay a while back demanding the takedown of Tiger? [ Link ] My answer to that would be that Apple also has their share of copyrights, too. However, the Apple people doesn't need some "Genuine Advantage" or any other on-board anti-piracy system approach to go after the pirates; the way Microsoft would. This could also be another reason why Apple could outbeat Windows in overall performance. No one needs "Genuine Advantage", especially after 25 or more activations of a product key? Grr... =/

To me "Windows Genuine Advantage" is my way of saying that it is an example of an on-board anti-piracy system, because it simply runs on Windows and its system is consisted of remote databases that the OS connects to without the consumer's consent.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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Yeah seriously, it's a pain in the neck. I've heard of instances where some people changed a part on their computer and Vista locked up or whatever it does when you don't activate it. That's way too much trouble for legit users. Piracy will also be a problem but there's no need to hassle legit users about when it doesn't hardly effect the pirated versions.

Like I said, I have a simple tool I've been using for a while, two minutes, reboot, and XP is genuine. That's a lot faster then having to call them and go through that process. Same with Vista, no matter what genuine tool they come out with or whatever way to prevent Vista from being pirated, there's always people out there as smart and if not smarter then the people at Microsoft that will find new ways around that crap. So I don't know why MS keeps trying because in the end they will always be defeated. I wish they'd get that through their head and take a new approach if they're really that worried about losing money. It's not like they don't make enough already. :roll:
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

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Drugs wrote:
SamG wrote:It's one thing to say everybody copies, it's very much another thing altogether to be a company that prides itself on being an innovator and world class technology leader and yet copies just like everybody else.
Amen.
Innovation is a relative term. From my perspective, things like Singularity, .NET, C#, and TouchLight are, indeed, innovation. Microsoft's advances in speech recognition and on-the-fly audio processing such as this are very impressive in terms of innovation. But the idea itself is not new. ;) I wouldn't be surprised if that technology doesn't make a fully-fledged appearance in the audio stack in Windows 7. The existing and rewritten stack in Vista allows for this to be implemented relatively easily. A lot of this audio technology as a result of Microsoft Research was carried into products such as Ford Sync.

Just because it doesn't make it into Windows or Office or its own standalone product doesn't mean it's not innovating and providing a platform for others to build on top of and innovate more. A lot of the concepts that Microsoft learned through projects such as Singularity were taken and used with what's now known as "MinWin." Innovation is an evolution process. It takes bits and pieces from everywhere.

And here's the basic consepts that made it into Surface: PlayAnywhere here and here ... first shown in 2005 long before the iPhone was even a rumor, which most people "think" was the first multitouch device. Combining this with TouchLight gave birth to Surface. The idea of multitouch has been around sine 1982ish. It's not new. Would anyone not consider the iPhone or Surface innovation, though?

If you want to be technical, you could say that this arbitrary "innovation" didn't come from "Microsoft" or any company, but rather it came from the individuals that work at that particular company. Microsoft sees a fantastic idea, such as Surface or Photosynth (which originated from students in a research project at the University of Washington), comes along side of that innovator and provides the resources, manpower, and programming talent in order to bring that idea into primetime. This original idea is then evolved and nurtured into the final product.

Gone are the days were one person can single-handedly code an entire OS. Getting ideas into primetime takes entire teams, even though just 1 person has the idea.

Notice how I really haven't talked about Windows? Most of Microsoft's development funding doesn't even go into primetime products. ;)

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