Your Opinion on Vista?

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Roberdin
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by Roberdin » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:02 pm

holy dog wrote:Well vista sux. Everyone knew that.
It didn't meet the expectations set by Microsoft, but they got a bit ahead of themselves. It's still an improvement on XP, just not as great as some had hoped. Saying that it "sux" [sic] is really not going to persuade anyone of your view.
holy dog wrote:Its copying Mac for it's 'simple design'.
Well, that's the name of the game in the computing market. Copy and improve. Mac copies Windows all the time (Time Machine anyone?). Similarly Microsoft seek ideas from Mac and sometimes even Linux. There really is no problem in taking a good idea. The idea of the mouse, for example, was taken by Mac from Xerox, I believe.
holy dog wrote:Never worked and it ended up all trashed up and more holes for hackers hack through then Xp etc.
Rubbish. Vista is far more secure than XP. The attack surface has been dramatically reduced; the new network security features are excellent.
holy dog wrote:If your not using your comp for gaming then i say Linux ubuntu. Good. Really good and its free! Free software and you hardly can get hacked.
I like to know that when I buy a piece of new hardware or software, it will just work. With Windows, that happens 99% of the time; when I had Linux, it was a real nightmare. I simply don't have the time to learn how Linux operates. I have nothing against Linux, just I'm quite happy to pay for a good product.
holy dog wrote:In 100 hacked comps,88 are windows,10 are Macs and 2 are linux!
Do you have a source for this statistic? Besides, I have a hardware firewall, a software firewall, I'm not an idiot; that's really all that's needed for reasonable safety. Linux and Macs are hacked less frequently because they have such little market share in comparison to Windows.
holy dog wrote: If you really want to install Linux, make sure you do it on a trashable hard drive, if it fails, it WILL destroy the hard drive ==".
I don't have a "trashable" hard disc, I actually value my possessions. Besides, how on Earth could an operating system permanently destroy the disc?
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by AdamR » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:53 pm

holy dog wrote:Well vista sux. Everyone knew that.
Hmm. I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know. I was just about to install it on a fourth computer in my house because it has been running so stable and perfectly for me. ;)
Its copying Mac for it's 'simple design'.
This argument has been thrown around ever since build 5112 and it is completely unfounded in reality. Sure, some features might have been "copied," but could you please name one company that competes with others on the face of this very planet that hasn't done the same thing in one way, shape, or form? That's the very nature of technology and competition.

Besides, let's start naming some things Apple has copied from other people, starting with Xerox. They had the original "modern" GUI and windowing system on the Xerox Alto, and later, Xerox Star. It wasn't until after Apple saw these ideas in production did they come out with Lisa several years later. The mouse was also one of the things copied. Actually, Xerox didn't even invent this. Douglas Engelbart did, the same guy who had major influence in both the GUI and ARPANET (ie, the first true Internet).

OS X has even more things copied from other companies and researchers than ever in Apple's history. Dashboard is clearly copied from Konfabulator. I can't find the source, but Konfabulator wasn't even the first to do this either. Spotlight? If we want to go back far enough, it could be said that Microsoft had a large part in this development. Again, I can't find the source, but Microsoft talked about this in one of their conferences back in 1994/1995as a feature in Windows 3 and then codename Chicago (Windows 95), but they later regarded it as not possible at the time due to hardware limitations. Spotlight wasn't introduced until Tiger (2005). Microsoft had already well documented this as a feature that would be included with Vista. Now, I'm not saying Apple copied this idea directly from Microsoft because they announced it, I'm just making it clear that this idea was nothing new and Apple was really only the first one to implement it at the OS level, not think of it.

Again, I'm only picking on Apple because the idea of Microsoft copying Apple was brought up by the OP. Every company in competition has done the same thing in some way, shame, or form. It's the very nature of technological competition and progression: someone comes up with an idea, another company creates something similar, improves it, and releases their own version. Rinse and repeat.
Never worked and it ended up all trashed up and more holes for hackers hack through then Xp etc.
Pure FUD. The features at the kernel level in Vista significantly improve security. And while they aren't perfect, they're certainly more secure then XP. XP was a mess until SP2 with regard to security.
My friend bought for $60 and went home to find out that its sux. He quickly went back to Xp!
How exactly did he get Vista for $60, might I ask? Regardless, Vista does indeed have its annoyances. There was a bug in Vista's TCP/IP handling on my laptop that had me extremely annoyed for months at a time (MS recently released a hotfix for it). I actually did go back to XP. And you know what? After about 1 day of use I went back to Vista. Now every time I have to sit down at my sister's or parent's computer (running XP) to fix something, I'm extremely frustrated. Until I used Vista full-on, I didn't realize how difficult XP was to use in terms of navigation control panels, etc. Vista hardly sucks. It's hardly perfection either. I'm eagerly looking forward to SP1.
If your not using your comp for gaming then i say Linux ubuntu. Good. Really good and its free! Free software and you hardly can get hacked.
Linux is NOT a layman's OS. Period. It requires too many steps, too much searching, and has ridiculously low driver support at this point in time. With Windows or OS X, it really does just work 99% of the time.
In 100 hacked comps,88 are windows,10 are Macs and 2 are linux!
Could I get a source for this information? Regardless, as people have said above me, those numbers are pretty darn close to the market share values of each OS. Naturally, this will be the case in terms of security flaws as well. Now granted, under the hood Linux might be more secure, but it doesn't mean security holes (and even extremely serious holes) don't exist in large numbers. The same thing happened to Firefox as its market share went above 10%; we started seeing security hole after security hole pop up.
If you really want to install Linux, make sure you do it on a trashable hard drive, if it fails, it WILL destroy the hard drive ==".
You seriously must be joking. As smithy has already said, a modern OS installed on modern hardware just can't physically destroy the drive. In the past, a bad OS or possibly virus could cause the HDD head to move in a pattern that could, in fact, damage the disk surface. Now with a modern OS, can it corrupt the data and require a reformat? Possibly. Even then I'd be surprised to see the corruption at the entire disc level rather than just a few sectors, which actually happens all the time, but the hardware and OS can work together to verify the correctness of the data and fix it without you even knowing.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by A_O_C » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:12 pm

AdamR wrote:
My friend bought for $60 and went home to find out that its sux. He quickly went back to Xp!
How exactly did he get Vista for $60, might I ask?
some colleges, (not going to mention any names) allow students to purchase OS disks at reduced pricing. mine, thankfully, lets you get it for free. ;)

regardless of whatever the "pro-vista" fanatics want to say, vista is trash. software and hardware were incompatible the day it shipped. even microsoft products dont run correctly on vista (can we say VisualBasic?). i work for an IT consulting company, and i refuse to recommend vista to any of my clients. vista is Windows Me all over again. i hope microsoft wakes up by the time fiji and vienna ship. :roll:

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by Sandrus » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:16 pm

I expected more of Vista. I also heard XP is still better to play games? Then I stay using XP as long as possible. When buying a new pc I change of course, but let us hope that many good updates will come to that time.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by AdamR » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:25 pm

A_O_C wrote:regardless of whatever the "pro-vista" fanatics want to say, vista is trash. software and hardware were incompatible the day it shipped. even microsoft products dont run correctly on vista (can we say VisualBasic?).
How exactly is this entirely Vista or Microsoft's fault? I watched the developers conferences, I subscribed to MSDN's announcements. I read the articles relating to publication and documentation on the internal workings of Vista. I'm not an in-depth or professional developer personally, but let's just say I have very good friends (and have family) which are very involved. Microsoft released documentation and provided the means for developers to create new drivers and have Vista support well before it shipped (ie, early 2005). It was the developer's main fault the drivers and applications aren't compatible and not Microsoft's.

As for Visual Basic, well, no kidding. Microsoft ended support for VB6 back in March of 2005, almost 2 years before Vista's release. Shouldn't developers try to switch to a new platform along the lines of .NET?
vista is Windows Me all over again.
That statement is just utter and complete garbage. Windows ME was ridiculously unstable no matter how you tweaked it or what you did with it. To be honest, I've tested Vista on quite a large assortment of hardware configurations and never once have I had any major stability issues related to the OS. Heck, Vista recovers from application crashes so much better than any previous Windows OS.

I'm not saying that Vista is perfect. That's hardly the case. It's anything but perfect. Microsoft rushed it and it still feels like somewhat of a RC product at this point (some would say Beta, though I personally wouldn't). But it's also hardly garbage or a repeat of the horror that was Windows ME.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by A_O_C » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:38 pm

AdamR wrote:How exactly is this entirely Vista or Microsoft's fault?... It was the developer's main fault the drivers and applications aren't compatible and not Microsoft's.
doesnt microsoft have to certify drivers and applications?
AdamR wrote:As for Visual Basic, well, no kidding. Microsoft ended support for VB6 back in March of 2005, almost 2 years before Vista's release. Shouldn't developers try to switch to a new platform along the lines of .NET?
im sorry, my post should have been more clear. i was speaking of the VB.NET platform. i tried it on a vista machine and it still wouldnt work properly
AdamR wrote:That statement is just utter and complete garbage. Windows ME was ridiculously unstable no matter how you tweaked it or what you did with it. To be honest, I've tested Vista on quite a large assortment of hardware configurations and never once have I had any major stability issues related to the OS. Heck, Vista recovers from application crashes so much better than any previous Windows OS.

I'm not saying that Vista is perfect. That's hardly the case. It's anything but perfect. Microsoft rushed it and it still feels like somewhat of a RC product at this point (some would say Beta, though I personally wouldn't). But it's also hardly garbage or a repeat of the horror that was Windows ME.
just my personal opinion

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by AdamR » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:02 pm

A_O_C wrote:doesnt microsoft have to certify drivers and applications?
In order to get the "Certified for Windows Vista" logo, yes, they do. Or rather, third party developers and testers which Microsoft has contracted do this.

That still doesn't explain the lack of drivers or the fact that very view were even in development in the first place by manufactures. Not being certified for Vista doesn't stop developers from releasing their drivers and applications.
im sorry, my post should have been more clear. i was speaking of the VB.NET platform. i tried it on a vista machine and it still wouldnt work properly
What aspect are we talking here about VB.NET? The development application (ie, Visual Studio), or the platform itself?
just my personal opinion
Your statement really doesn't fall into the "opinion" category. You said, in effect, Vista suffers from the same problems and status as a failed product as ME. I stated that Windows ME's main problem was it was thoroughly unstable and Vista has relatively few stability problems, heck, even when comparing it to the "cornerstone" that is Windows 2000. The comparison isn't one of opinion matters.

On the other hand, whether or not you find Vista visually pleasing is an opinion as it's subjective and no facts can be given as to why or why not this is "true." That is an opinion. The matter of which OS is more stable is not.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut » Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:50 am

I have been using Vista now for almost a month on my new laptop.

The only problems I've had was when I tried to install Ubuntu...I b0rked the HDD because I didn't understand that the installer was asking for the new size of the Vista partition, and not the partition which Ubuntu would be installed on.

I do find the "do you want to proceed changing the system time" a bit over the top.

Performance-wise, it is leaps and bounds above my last computer. I think that is mostly due to the hardware. This one has the Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM, last one had a Celeron with 256MB RAM.

I can't complain about Vista at all.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by holy dog » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:40 am

Sigh... Its your opinion

(fun fact)-vista nearly lost all there sales in Korea cause their version wouldn't allow internet access. The reason why? The Korean computers ALWAYS send a signal to a site before you go there to check it if it safe or not. Vista blocks that. No signal reply. No internet. They were really busy making patches for it. LOL. No internet=living hell.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by smithy_dll » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:35 pm

holy dog wrote:Sigh... Its your opinion
I'm sorry, but for most of the rebuttals to most of your points opinion didn't even factor into it. Facts did. All good arguments are supported with them.


For example with your fun fact, show us the reference, because in my knowledge of how the world works, the Internet is the same no-matter where you access it from. All the access protocols are the same, that's what makes the Internet work, standards (those things decided by the IETF aeons ago and we're still using no matter what region or language spoken).


So back to what is opinion, you said no Internet is a living hell, that is an opinion. It is my opinion that yours is false, no Internet is fine, people survived more than 50,000 years without it. So yeah, that's an example of opinion. Another example of opinion is whether or not you like something. Whether you like Vista or not is an opinion, it's security design principles, product family, recorded stability, amount of hardware devices supported are all facts.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by Anon » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:26 am

I'm not as impressed with it as I'd like. There are many annoyances with it I've found - it's a lot slower on my siblings' laptops than I imagined, it reboots without any form of prompt from me, and applications I find highly useful (Ultramon & AnyPassword) are incompatible. It'll take time to get used to, I know, but it seems half done, like Microsoft bit off more than they could code. Hopefully SP1 smooths over the potholes

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by CheopisIV » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:20 am

Tried Vista for a couple months, Really tried to like it. It takes too much RAM, it doesn't like my older games, won't fileshare with my XP-only Laptop and drivers are too scarce right now for a lot of my peripherals.

I do love the ability to use USB sticks as system boosters, and it sure looked nice, but until I rebuild something a little more modern (current comp is over 3 years since last build) I'm sticking with XP.

Ubuntu is looking somewhat appealing..but until current project development is finished and I have time to play, XP will stay.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by WhiteElephant » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:46 pm

My Dad's just got Vista so I've had a play, but it doesn't really appeal to me. I've got to say that I prefer mac OSx much more than it. Haven't really tried any of the others except for XP so :D
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by cdanik » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:20 pm

I was messing with a laptop at bestbuy with vista. I like it so far, but i've heard too many stories to get it :D
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by ckwalsh » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 am

CheopisIV wrote:Tried Vista for a couple months, Really tried to like it. It takes too much RAM,...
Just curious, did you turn off super prefetch?

You have to go into the registry, but after turning it off I haven't had any trouble.

I kinda like being able to mount FTP connections. A little shaky, but overall works.
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