No operations for smokers!

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sarak
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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by sarak » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:52 pm

It's crazy to think that someone could be denied an operation just because they may not pull through. It's not like we have more than one life and being denied an operation won't matter!

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Jim_UK
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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Jim_UK » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:09 pm

We have ridiculous situation in the UK with regard to smoking in General.
It is illegal to smoke in your workplace. They have extended that to include the company vehicle and quite rightly so. A none smoker should not be forced to inhale second hand smoke whilst travelling in that vehicle. This week we had a newspaper report of a painter and decorator being fined $60 for smoking in his works van. Wait a moment though - he is a "one man band" there are no employees that travel in that van.
That made no difference - the cigarette Gestapo would not relent.
The rule is the rule is the rule.

The taxation collected from tobacco sales would finance the Health Service many times over.
They raise the tax in small increments so as to not actually put anyone off smoking and hence paying the tax.

Jim
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Interlog
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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Interlog » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:53 pm

He may well be a one man band, but he still can't smoke in his truck (his workplace) because somebody may/will have to sit in it at some stage, eg to service the vehicle.

It is a stupid silly rule. It is the council enforcing the rule. The same council whos workers I spotted smoking in one of their vehicles.

Guess what I did - called them and grassed them up. Two can play that game.

(coming from a smoker).

Mark :D

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Jim_UK
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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Jim_UK » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:56 pm

Interlog wrote:Guess what I did - called them and grassed them up. Two can play that game.

(coming from a smoker).

Mark :D
Nice one but are you sure they were smoking grass? :lol:

Jim
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Rm Sppej Es
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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Rm Sppej Es » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:54 am

I'll tell you why it's wrong.

The NHS have this stuck up attitude that all smokers were born 29 with no brains. And that therefore they should be grown up enough now to understand the stupidity of sparking up.

Well let me tell you this. Smokers have been around since the times of living in trees, and children have forever been influenced to start by these ancestors. It is not therefore a grown man's fault for having a smoking habit that he developed in his vulnerable childhood.

You deny a smoker health care, you're denying your own sanity.

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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Techie-Micheal » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:35 pm

That's a fair point, but on the other hand, the information is out there that lighting up is hazardous to your health and there's no reason for people ignoring that. But they do, putting both themselves and others at risk because they picked up a bad habit.
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Rm Sppej Es
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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Rm Sppej Es » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:52 am

Yes, but until even light smoking could actually result in imminent death, there will always be people who will tell kids otherwise, and that there is no harm in it.

Because it is true, you can smoke just a couple (literally) a day for life and not get a disease.

You see it is a problem of opinion. The root to the habit is at childhood, but varying opinion can influence a child heavily.

So to summarize, as long as there will be varying opinion as to whether even light smoking is fatal, and no concrete proof, there will always be the possibility of a child getting innocently addicted to a habit he/she did not think would become so bad.

And anyway, at least in my generation, anyone over the age of 25 should be entitled to health care, 'cos back in my childhood there was still conflicting beliefs over the damage of smoking.

I guess we need to start predicting instead, if there is a genetic issue, which proves who will smoke more than others, or be more addicted and likely to increase their daily intake, and then we can be sure of who definitely shouldn't start.

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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:32 am

Rm Sppej Es wrote:Because it is true, you can smoke just a couple (literally) a day for life and not get a disease.
Yes, but you can also just smoke a couple a day for life and get terminal cancer. There's just no reason to put yourself at risk when people know that it is bad.
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Rm Sppej Es
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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Rm Sppej Es » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:37 am

Techie-Micheal wrote:
Rm Sppej Es wrote:Because it is true, you can smoke just a couple (literally) a day for life and not get a disease.
Yes, but you can also just smoke a couple a day for life and get terminal cancer. There's just no reason to put yourself at risk when people know that it is bad.
I think you dived in like a vulture without noticing the lion near by. :)

Of course, I agree with you, but what I was saying overall, is that we need to make some progress in the field of genetics, so that we can identify at birth who is vulnerable to what... and really, if two a day were likely to give you terminal cancer, then such an uncommon vulnerability would surely have been diagnosed in one's infancy, and thus the child would have known for sure not to start.

The problem is:
  1. A common and very minimal smoker will not get a disease.
  2. You cannot convince the world that smoking is not pleasurable.
Those two factors are very influencial. Whilst smoking is proven to be bad for you, the actual pleasure obtained from it cannot be proven to be fictionary, as it is very, very real... and so also, and with that in mind, if the average human being can smoke two a day safely, then there is still little, even today, that can totally dissuade people from starting.

Until we can identify who is more likely to increase their dosage from a minimal amount, and put themselves at risk, then those people can't be blamed for not knowing that they would do that very thing. With all the knowledge around, if you honestly can't moderate your daily intake to just two a day, then you must have an abnormal genetic vulnerability, in some way.

But again, if there is any even ground in this argument, adults over the age of 25 should not be excluded from health care, because they grew up in an age of poor advice.

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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Gud » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:01 pm

Here's a little known fact: The oldest person ever to be alive was a smoker. She quit when she was 117 and the only reason for this was because she couldn't see well enough to light the cigarette. 8-)
I'm a smoker. I like it and I couldn't care less if I die earlier because of it. I'd rather live a short life where I do everything I want to do than live a long uneventful life staying away from anything that could potentially be harmful for you.

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Re: No operations for smokers!

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:42 pm

and that should be your right , howver foolish it is.

I was a smoker for over 40 years, I am now not a smoker and have been that way for over 4 years.

The facts are that nicotine is addictive ( and maybe other chemicals that are in tobacco products), and that the tobacco companies have known it for many years if not from the beginning.

They have knowingly incresed the amount of nicotine in their products to make them even more addictive.

They have marketed their products to young people to get them addictied as early as possible.
blah, blah, blah.

They should all be put in prison for the rest of their lives, right along with all the other drug traffickers.


I don't think you will find much evidence of genetic predisposition to nicotine addiction but you might.

It really doesnt' matter. The fact is that if you smoke very much, you will become addicted.

I do believe that everyone has the right to make their own choices about their own lives and health.
I do believe that people also have the right to not be subjected to unhealthy things in public places.

I do NOT believe that the government or anyone else has the right to tell anyone that they can't smoke in the privacy of their homes or cars etc.

I do NOT believe that people should be denied medical care because they made bad health choices.

How about let's deny health care to people with skin cancer? Didn't they pay attention when they were told that staying out in the sun without proper protection would give them skin cancer?

etc, etc.

The fact that a governmental agency can deny healthcare to someone like this, is another reason why universl healthcare by the government is not a good idea.


robert

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