New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users.
Forum rules
General Discussion is a bonus forum for discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users. All site rules apply.
User avatar
ShyMeg
Registered User
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:09 am

New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by ShyMeg » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:12 pm

New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/n ... New.Jersey

By TOM HESTER Jr., AP

TRENTON, N.J. —

Gov. Jon S. Corzine signed into law Monday a measure that abolishes the death penalty, making New Jersey the first state in more than four decades to reject capital punishment.

The bill, approved last week by the state's Assembly and Senate, replaces the death sentence with life in prison without parole.
I tend to agree with W.S. Gilbert, "Let the punishment fit the crime." What is fitting for a killer? It is rather a medieval practice to "send him to God" for judgment. the judgment has been made, so now how about a little punishment? Well, another forward step for civilization. Killing is still murder, even if the state does it. There are exceptions in wartime, but then again, there shouldn't be wars.

Let's here what you guys have to say. :)

Side note: I hope this discussion isn't shut down as a result of flaming. It won't be if we can remember to refer to the topic, and not each other.
Lurk before you leap.

Cyber-Mommy
:?

User avatar
Techie-Micheal
Security Consultant
Posts: 19511
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 12:11 am
Location: In your servers

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:37 pm

I'm on the fence on this. On the one hand, I don't think it is fair to keep taking lives and ruining families. However, what happens if the murderer gets out of prison through one way or another? Chances are that he or she will kill again, and nobody wants that.

That all said, time to give some interesting facts. In 1984, the largest prison break in America's history took place. 6 Death Row inmates escaped from the maximum security prison. In a rather astonishing maneuver, they escaped by social engineering the guards (after over-throwing others) and walked right out the front door. My point? I don't know. :P But being a Criminal Justice major, I've been exposed to "the system" in both lecture and even hands-on experience. I can tell you trying that trying to negotiate with someone with a loaded shotgun that kept firing off rounds is not exactly what I would call a walk in the park. :P Sure, they were blanks, but still. :P My point here is that until you experience why the justice system is the way it is, it can be hard to understand. Now, I'm only a college student, so I'm certainly not going to have the experience that others will have. But the same holds true elsewhere in the justice system. Until you experience why police officers have and use stun guns, chances are you aren't going to understand completely why officers use them. Or why officers use the PIT in car chases.

eh, I probably just rambled on with a bunch of useless text. :P
Proven Offensive Security Expertise. OSCP - GXPN

xjy
Registered User
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:38 pm

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by xjy » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:58 pm

I'm pretty on the fence as to what the law should be because I know there are a lot of things to be considered in this kind of decision.

But for me personally, it seems kinda wrong to tell people "killing is bad!!!" and then turn around and kill someone because some judge or panel of people thinks it's "fitting" or "necessary" or "the only way" or whatever. *shrug*

User avatar
thecoalman
Community Team Member
Community Team Member
Posts: 3405
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by thecoalman » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:23 pm

I only agree with it because there have been too many people on death row found to be not guilty. I think other states will follow. If the justice system can guarantee to me that they are in fact guilty I say hang them from the highest tree they can find preferably for a slow agonizing death.
“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I have found several thousand things that won’t work.”

Attributed - Thomas Edison

User avatar
Nicholas the Italian
Registered User
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:18 pm

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by Nicholas the Italian » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:30 pm

I was curious about this - how is the "feeling" about this inside the US?
So sad they opposed yesterday's UN moratorium, but I had a friend (from Chicago) who told me that basically most americans are against death penalty, and lately I've been seeing many "signs" of a change of mind even at institutional level, like state suspensions, high court appeals, and last in time NJ decision.
How true is that?
xjy wrote:But for me personally, it seems kinda wrong to tell people "killing is bad!!!" and then turn around and kill someone because some judge or panel of people thinks it's "fitting" or "necessary" or "the only way" or whatever. *shrug*
I totally agree. Beyond the juridical/human aspect, it's the social consequences of teaching people that sometimes killing is right that I can't accept.
Whatever I say, it's not my fault.

User avatar
thecoalman
Community Team Member
Community Team Member
Posts: 3405
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by thecoalman » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:40 pm

Nicholas the Italian wrote:I was curious about this - how is the "feeling" about this inside the US?
Probably depends on which segment of the population you are surveying but I know if you made such a survey in my neck of the woods a few years back it would overwhelmingly support it. My guess is there has been a shift in recent years towards more people not supporting it which hasn't been brought on by whether its right or wrong but instead because they don't want to put to death a innocent man or woman.
“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I have found several thousand things that won’t work.”

Attributed - Thomas Edison

xjy
Registered User
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:38 pm

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by xjy » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:45 pm

Yeah, a large part of the people that are becoming more and more against the death penalty seem to be be that way because of the potential to execute innocent people.

User avatar
Jim_UK
Former Team Member
Posts: 18478
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:36 pm
Location: Darwen N.West UK

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by Jim_UK » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:47 pm

I support the death penalty for premeditated murder.
I know that mistakes have been made in the past and innocent people have been sentenced to death but I think with the advances in technology it is increasingly less likely.
The problem we have in the UK (were incidentally the death penalty was abolished in the 1960') is that the alternative is really not any sort of real punishment.
In the UK if someone is sentenced to "life" imprisonment the judge will often then recommend that they server are least 8 years before being considered for release. Since when has 8 years been "life"
I hope you get where I am coming from but in case not let me explain.
The sentence that a criminal gets should not only be a punishment but serve as a deterrent to others. When the punishment for murder can be less than the punishment for armed robbery then something has gone wrong.

I am sure that statistics will show that no executed murderer has ever committed murder again. ;)
That is not true of those that have got away with 8 or 10 years in prison where lots have gone on to commit other violent crimes and in some cases even more murders.

If the people of the UK had a free vote on this issue I am pretty sure we would have a return to the death penalty as most are pretty fed up of the way this country is sinking into the abyss.

Jim
The truth is out there.
Unfortunately they will not let you anywhere near it!

User avatar
thecoalman
Community Team Member
Community Team Member
Posts: 3405
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by thecoalman » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:17 pm

Jim_UK wrote:I know that mistakes have been made in the past and innocent people have been sentenced to death but I think with the advances in technology it is increasingly less likely.
Ironically it's the reverse of that where people have already been convicted, there's been wave of people that have been found to be innocent most of it due to DNA evidence that wasn't available when they were convicted.

When you get sentenced to death here you can drag it out for more than a decade or even longer. For example the state I live in has the death penalty however they have only executed a handful of people in the last 3 decades, there's hundreds sitting on death row though and some of them have been there for 2 decades. You're more likely to die of old age than get executed.

Since the technology wasn't available when they were convicted some of them are being exonerated when the evidence is reexamined using modern techniques like DNA testing.
“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I have found several thousand things that won’t work.”

Attributed - Thomas Edison

User avatar
stickerboy
Former Team Member
Posts: 7349
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Airdrie, UK (127.0.0.1)
Name: Kenny Cameron
Contact:

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by stickerboy » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:26 pm

Jim_UK has covered most of what I was going to say myself.
Only things I would like to add to that - we, the TAX payers, are paying for them to be in Jail.
I don't know what Jails in other countries are like, but over here these guys pretty much get what they want.
They get TV's, games consoles, some even get paid for doing work while there. They can get an education - degrees and such (which i suppose isn't a bad thing).
But we're paying for criminals/thugs/theifs/murderers/paedofiles to have a better life that some of the honest hard working people have - that's what gets to me :(
Some are even suing over their rights and winning (for completely ridiculous things).
In my own opinion - you kill someone, you forefit your rights.
I'm a web-designing code-decrypting tech-support musician
|| Twitter || Flickr || phpBB Snippets ||
Formerly known as cherokee red

User avatar
drathbun
Former Team Member
Posts: 12204
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: TOPICS_TABLE
Contact:

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by drathbun » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:49 pm

Some might say I am not qualified to answer, since I live in Texas. :)

The thing about the death penalty is that it's so permanent, right? If you put someone in jail, and 20 years later someone comes out of the woods and admits they did the crime, you can free the first person. Kill them, and you've lost that ability. That tends to bother people.

On the other hand, if you have a criminal that freely admits to the crime, evidence supports his or her story, and the crime was heinous enough to demand it, would you want to let them sit in jail for the rest of their life getting a free ride? Or would you rather get it over and done with?

What if you were directly affected by the crime (your mother / father / other relative(s) were killed by the criminal) would you have the same opinion?

What do you have to do to deserve the death penalty? Kill one person? Kill three people? Five? Kill a cop? Kill a public official? Poison a city water supply? Inject toxins into sealed bottles of medicine on store shelves? Jaywalk? Pick wildflowers in a national park?
I blog about phpBB: phpBBDoctor blog
Still using phpbb2? So am I! Click below for details
Image

User avatar
Anon
Former Team Member
Posts: 7019
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:33 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by Anon » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:03 am

Techie-Micheal wrote:I'm on the fence on this. On the one hand, I don't think it is fair to keep taking lives and ruining families. However, what happens if the murderer gets out of prison through one way or another? Chances are that he or she will kill again, and nobody wants that.
If it's possible to escape prison, there are much bigger problems than murderers being stored there. It's hardly a reason at all. True, a killer might kill again, and that's a bad thing. But so is a rapist raping again, a drug dealer drug dealing again, and an account fraudster committing account fraud again. It's be hardly reasonable to think to cull these criminals.

Personally, I don't support the death penalty because there's the chance of it getting the wrong person. True, it might be increasingly unlikely, true, it will "virtually" never happen. But sooner or later, it will happen. And someone perfectly innocent, who never killed anyone in their life, will die.

User avatar
ShyMeg
Registered User
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:09 am

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by ShyMeg » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:01 am

Jim_UK wrote:I support the death penalty for premeditated murder.
I'm not really sure what advantages the death penalty has. It does let the murderer know exactly how horrible the crime which he has committed is, but then again, he doesn't live to know it. It does eliminate a rather dangerous person from repeating his crime, but the government seems to repeat it plenty.

Note that I'm trying to ask what the advantages of capital punishment are more than I'm trying to prove that there are none. ;)
Lurk before you leap.

Cyber-Mommy
:?

User avatar
Tripp
Former Team Member
Posts: 1358
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:14 am
Location: G'boro, North Carolina
Name: Tripp
Contact:

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by Tripp » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:00 pm

I support the death penalty. Like previously said, through one chance or another, the person will get out and do it again. It always happens.

Not to mention, I don't think many people realize(United States) that our taxes pay for inmates. I think it's estimated at 1 million people are incarcerated across the US. At $50 a day to cloth, feed, and manage these inmates....well, you do the math. That adds up to A LOT of money...coming out of our pockets.

If we put them to death, one less person to worry about getting our on parole or escaping and committing another crime, and one less person to feed and house.

But I don't think any killer should get the death penalty. For example, gang members should. Why? They knew what they were doing. They were thinking straight and probably more then likely enjoyed killing whomever. It was an accident, it wasn't rage of the moment, wasn't a bizzare incident, it was a straight forward murder. People like this should be put to death. I know everyone makes mistakes but taking someones life purposely over drugs, money or anything is not a mistake in my eyes....it's an unforgivable sin.

You have no idea how many cases I've seen especially with rapists/child molestors who commit a rape, are tried, and sentenced to say 20 years in prison and get out on parole after like 5-10 years and go rape/molest another person.

When you commit an act of violence to that degree, there shouldn't be a second chance in my opinion. They're just a sick minded person who doesn't belong on this Earth.

So, if we killed a lot of these criminals it would protect the general public from the possibility of the person ever getting out of prison and committing a crime again and it saves us money.

Not to mention, most people on death row get their punishment anyway when they sit on death row for 15 years. So the way I see it, they get a nice prison sentence and then death.
The box said 'You need Windows XP or better' .... so I installed linux.

Formerly Drugs

User avatar
soxie
Former Team Member
Posts: 3180
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:31 pm
Location: boston
Name: Brian

Re: New Jersey Bans The Death Penalty

Post by soxie » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:19 pm

I've never seen the logic in taking someones life in order to prove to them that taking someones life was a poor choice.
// brian

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”