United States Gunlaw(s)

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Liquinn
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United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:58 pm

Considering there hasn't been any previous discussion, to my knowledge about the topic title, do you think that the United State's gunlaws are too, flexible, anyone can get a gun. My opinion on this is, no one needs a gun, however, in the US, anyone can get one, anyone, parents, a 10 year child, can buy a gun, however license is more secure, I think you have to be 21 to get a license, but anyone can get a gun in the US, is not right, in my opinion.

What's your opinion(s) on this subject? I could add to this, but I think this post covers information about the issue(s), and my opinion.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by battye » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:16 pm

The right to bear arms, it is such a complex discussion. Bowling For Columbine is a very good movie/documentary which covers this topic, although it is quite biased.

The movie said, I forget the exact figure, but it was in the tens of thousands, of gun related deaths in the USA, compared to something like 60 or 70 in countries like the UK, Australia and Japan each year. Absolutely shocking.

But the problem is not to do with the guns. It isn't the gun that kills a person, it is the person that pulls the trigger. I can't see the USA ever outlawing guns, until people are better educated about gun use you are always going to have problems.

Good topic. :)
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by A_O_C » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:18 pm

i think they are somewhat flexible. i can see the need where LE would need them. i personally dont own one (and probably never will), but if i did, it would be for self-defense purposes only. if someone breaks into my house and has a knife handy, a bullet flies faster than a human throwing a knife at another human. ;)

i do agree that kids can easily get their hands on one. parents need to stop stashing them under a pile of clothes in their dresser or in the corner of their closet. lockboxes anyone (with they key IN THE PARENTS HAND AT ALL TIMES)?

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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Phil » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:22 pm

Personally, I don't think gun control would do much at stopping killings. I mean, they're killers, after all -- what's a little illegal possession of a firearm charge when you've already got a murder charge stacked up?
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:23 pm

iWisdom wrote:Personally, I don't think gun control would do much at stopping killings. I mean, they're killers, after all -- what's a little illegal possession of a firearm charge when you've already got a murder charge stacked up?
The US has gun shops, meaning anyone can get guns, I don't see how the gun law can change, to be honest. I have no idea, anyone can get access to the things they want, if they want, regardless of the law.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:54 pm

The thing is, not anyone (yes, the poor grammar is on purpose to get my point across) can get a gun legally. The vast majority of gun shops are indeed legal. Otherwise they will be taken down by ATF fairly quickly.

Quick review:

18 years old: Can buy and register a shotgun, and only a shotgun
21 years old: Can buy and register other firearms

Now, there are further restrictions. Mentally ill have further restrictions still (though yes, there are problems with that, for example the horrible VA Tech incident), there is also a grace period where background checks are done. A convicted felon won't be able to purchase a firearm from a gun store. No amount of gun control is going to stop felons from illegally obtaining a firearm (read: buying off the streets, stealing from gun stores, etc). There are also limits to how many firearms you can buy and register in a given time period.

Why guns? Well, it is indeed a constitutional right. It dates back to when we separated from the British (obviously :P). However, unlike the UK's history (Winchester something or other, wasn't it?), US citizens are not required to bear arms. Secondly, people do hunt. So why hunting? Well, food, sport (which I disagree with entirely ...), and to control animal populations. I know of people that use the bones and pelts to make jewelry and clothing. There are seasons for hunting. It isn't always turkey season, it isn't always duck season, and so on. And there are people that just like to collect. We have firearms in the house, but the vast majority are WWII and prior. Heck, one gun was used as a training rifle by the Nazis. My grandfather collected it when he served in the US military.

Before someone pipes up, yes, people still hunt for food. When my dad was my age, he and his family had to hunt for food. It is just a fact of life.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Jim_UK » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:09 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote:Why guns? Well, it is indeed a constitutional right. It dates back to when we separated from the British (obviously :P). However, unlike the UK's history (Winchester something or other, wasn't it?), US citizens are not required to bear arms.
OT
I still await the knock on the door from the police as I have failed to do my regular practice with the Longbow.
Yes still on the statute books that we are required to practice.

I used to hunt but increasingly more restrictions on the use of firearms made me "throw in the towel".
After the massacre at the school in Scotland they clamped down on ownership to such an extent that only shotguns were still relatively easy to get a permit for.
Did that clamp down reduce the use of firearms in crime?
Did it heck. The incidence of firearms use in crime continues to rise - it is only the criminals that can seemingly easily get hold of one.

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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:49 pm

Jim_UK wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:Why guns? Well, it is indeed a constitutional right. It dates back to when we separated from the British (obviously :P). However, unlike the UK's history (Winchester something or other, wasn't it?), US citizens are not required to bear arms.
OT
I still await the knock on the door from the police as I have failed to do my regular practice with the Longbow.
Yes still on the statute books that we are required to practice.
:lol: You actually helped me make my point and that is that people from the UK point fingers at the US, but they seemingly forget their own history.
I used to hunt but increasingly more restrictions on the use of firearms made me "throw in the towel".
After the massacre at the school in Scotland they clamped down on ownership to such an extent that only shotguns were still relatively easy to get a permit for.
Did that clamp down reduce the use of firearms in crime?
Did it heck. The incidence of firearms use in crime continues to rise - it is only the criminals that can seemingly easily get hold of one.

Jim
Indeedy. :( While law-abiding citizens aren't able to protect themselves from the criminals. You are only punishing law-abiding citizens for obeying the law when it comes to further gun control laws.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:53 pm

18 years old: Can buy and register a shotgun, and only a shotgun
21 years old: Can buy and register other firearms

Hmm, the issue is the kids taking the parent(s) guns, and then using them, I didn't know that you have to be 18, or 21, I hope you get my point. :D
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:56 pm

Liquinn wrote:18 years old: Can buy and register a shotgun, and only a shotgun
21 years old: Can buy and register other firearms

Hmm, the issue is the kids taking the parent(s) guns, and then using them, I didn't know that you have to be 18, or 21, I hope you get my point. :D
Then the burden is on the parents to a) teach their children about firearms and b) lock the firearms away.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:58 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:18 years old: Can buy and register a shotgun, and only a shotgun
21 years old: Can buy and register other firearms

Hmm, the issue is the kids taking the parent(s) guns, and then using them, I didn't know that you have to be 18, or 21, I hope you get my point. :D
Then the burden is on the parents to a) teach their children about firearms and b) lock the firearms away.
Yes, how did the Columbine killer(s) get access to the guns? They stole there parent(s) guns/weapons. You're right, and this shows that all American parents with guns should lock them away, but a confusing question that I ask, why do they need a gun?~
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:06 pm

Liquinn wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:18 years old: Can buy and register a shotgun, and only a shotgun
21 years old: Can buy and register other firearms

Hmm, the issue is the kids taking the parent(s) guns, and then using them, I didn't know that you have to be 18, or 21, I hope you get my point. :D
Then the burden is on the parents to a) teach their children about firearms and b) lock the firearms away.
Yes, how did the Columbine killer(s) get access to the guns? They stole there parent(s) guns/weapons. You're right, and this shows that all American parents with guns should lock them away, but a confusing question that I ask, why do they need a gun?~
For the reasons I and others mentioned? The thing with Columbine is that firearms were not the only weapons used. If memory serves me correctly, they also had active bombs in the school, correct? The point being is that sure, you may be able to take away guns, but you can't take away knowledge.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:10 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:18 years old: Can buy and register a shotgun, and only a shotgun
21 years old: Can buy and register other firearms

Hmm, the issue is the kids taking the parent(s) guns, and then using them, I didn't know that you have to be 18, or 21, I hope you get my point. :D
Then the burden is on the parents to a) teach their children about firearms and b) lock the firearms away.
Yes, how did the Columbine killer(s) get access to the guns? They stole there parent(s) guns/weapons. You're right, and this shows that all American parents with guns should lock them away, but a confusing question that I ask, why do they need a gun?~
For the reasons I and others mentioned? The thing with Columbine is that firearms were not the only weapons used. If memory serves me correctly, they also had active bombs in the school, correct? The point being is that sure, you may be able to take away guns, but you can't take away knowledge.
Well, you're right. Then there is Dunblane, he got the gun legally, and at the time, they couldn't revolke the license. However, that was a younger school, however as a country, we tightened up the gun laws here in the UK, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Jim_UK » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:17 pm

Owning guns by law abiding citizens does not increase gun crime. It is the criminals that they need to take the guns out of the hands of.
The government has this half baked idea that criminals rely on Joe Public to supply them with guns either by leaving them insecure or by passing them on.
I owned a semi automatic rifle with silencer some 30 years ago and it was common to get a knock on the door at 6am at the weekend and have to produce the weapon, showing that it was secure and have to show the extent of ammunition that I had in stock. The number stamped into the gun had to match the number on my permit.
How on earth could you get away with passing it on or lending it out. If there was a firearms incident in the area they could call upon you to hand it over for forensic testing.

No - firearms have been virtually removed from private ownership and yet the shootings continue to go up.
It is possible to buy a replica and get it converted to fire live ammo so what,s the chance.

Jim
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:20 pm

I think in the UK, guns are banned, end of story, I think Replica's are fine, but I'm not sure, In the US, they don't mind, the criminals, could get a gun(s) (in the US), and then do a bank robbery, then that's a problem, it's the license which makes it legal, however there are things to get a license in the US.
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