United States Gunlaw(s)

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The Awesomest Dude
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by The Awesomest Dude » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:37 am

Great minds often think alike. :)
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:47 pm

Guns kill, people do as well.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:10 pm

Liquinn wrote:Guns kill, people do as well.
Not quite ...

If you put a gun in the middle of a table, it will stay there without doing anything. It requires someone pull the trigger, ergo, people kill people, not guns.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Tripp » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:18 pm

Yep, Larry the Cable guy made this quote:

"Guns don't kill people, husbands that come home early do"

And it's the truth.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:22 pm

Without the guns? How can you pull the trigger?
Going to spain again on the 17th to the 24th of August 2008 after I leave school, so probably won't be around as much during that one week period.

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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Tripp » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:35 pm

Liquinn wrote:Without the guns? How can you pull the trigger?
What....?
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by xjy » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:59 pm

I think they meant "without the guns, there'd be no trigger for a person to pull."

Maybe.

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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Liquinn » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:05 pm

If there were no guns, there would be no access to a trigger.
Going to spain again on the 17th to the 24th of August 2008 after I leave school, so probably won't be around as much during that one week period.

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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:14 pm

Liquinn wrote:If there were no guns, there would be no access to a trigger.
Except that (and I mentioned this earlier in the topic) people can and do make guns out of things like ink pens. There's no trigger on those, and yet it still requires human interaction. Usually pulling the pen top to pull back in the pin to strike the primer after you release the spring-loaded pen top, but the point is, you cannot successfully outlaw guns. I and others have stated this many times over in this topic. Criminals are going to still get their hands on weapons, or make their own as I just stated again.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by AdamR » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:17 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:If there were no guns, there would be no access to a trigger.
Except that (and I mentioned this earlier in the topic) people can and do make guns out of things like ink pens. There's no trigger on those, and yet it still requires human interaction. Usually pulling the pen top to pull back in the pin to strike the primer after you release the spring-loaded pen top, but the point is, you cannot successfully outlaw guns. I and others have stated this many times over in this topic. Criminals are going to still get their hands on weapons, or make their own as I just stated again.
Adding on to that, guns aren't the only weapons. From a self-defense standpoint, you're in a much worse situation with someone who has a knife than someone who has a gun.

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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Anon » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:43 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:Guns kill, people do as well.
Not quite ...

If you put a gun in the middle of a table, it will stay there without doing anything. It requires someone pull the trigger, ergo, people kill people, not guns.
Using that argument, computer piracy, hard drugs and everything else should be legalised. Heroin isn't bad, it needs someone to inject it. adobe.photoshop.cs3.iso isn't bad, it needs someone to install it.

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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:37 pm

Anon wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:Guns kill, people do as well.
Not quite ...

If you put a gun in the middle of a table, it will stay there without doing anything. It requires someone pull the trigger, ergo, people kill people, not guns.
Using that argument, computer piracy, hard drugs and everything else should be legalised. Heroin isn't bad, it needs someone to inject it. adobe.photoshop.cs3.iso isn't bad, it needs someone to install it.
bzzzt. Sorry, try again.

One of the flaws is that it is not illegal to own a gun. It is illegal to own and to produce pirated software. Another flaw is that we are not talking about illegal drugs which have no good purpose. Guns, whether or not you wish to accept it, have good uses. But you are missing the point completely.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Anon » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:15 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote:
Anon wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:Guns kill, people do as well.
Not quite ...

If you put a gun in the middle of a table, it will stay there without doing anything. It requires someone pull the trigger, ergo, people kill people, not guns.
Using that argument, computer piracy, hard drugs and everything else should be legalised. Heroin isn't bad, it needs someone to inject it. adobe.photoshop.cs3.iso isn't bad, it needs someone to install it.
bzzzt. Sorry, try again.

One of the flaws is that it is not illegal to own a gun. It is illegal to own and to produce pirated software. Another flaw is that we are not talking about illegal drugs which have no good purpose. Guns, whether or not you wish to accept it, have good uses. But you are missing the point completely.
Some guns have good purposes. I would consider hunting rifles a good use of a gun, as long as it is done for hunting purposes only. Any other gun does not have a "good use", especially when there are so many non lethal alternatives for self defence.

I realise hard drugs and piracy are illegal, which is why I mentioned the word "legalised". In addition, a gun kills people. Heroin, when taken safely does not, neither does an ISO file.

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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:26 pm

Anon wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
Anon wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
Liquinn wrote:Guns kill, people do as well.
Not quite ...

If you put a gun in the middle of a table, it will stay there without doing anything. It requires someone pull the trigger, ergo, people kill people, not guns.
Using that argument, computer piracy, hard drugs and everything else should be legalised. Heroin isn't bad, it needs someone to inject it. adobe.photoshop.cs3.iso isn't bad, it needs someone to install it.
bzzzt. Sorry, try again.

One of the flaws is that it is not illegal to own a gun. It is illegal to own and to produce pirated software. Another flaw is that we are not talking about illegal drugs which have no good purpose. Guns, whether or not you wish to accept it, have good uses. But you are missing the point completely.
Some guns have good purposes. I would consider hunting rifles a good use of a gun, as long as it is done for hunting purposes only. Any other gun does not have a "good use", especially when there are so many non lethal alternatives for self defence.
We've been down this road before. If you are faced with a deadly threat, are you going to sit there and kick the guy in the shins until he gives up and hope you don't get shot? Or are you going to take control and shoot him before he kills you or someone else (assuming you have a firearm)? I would hope you wouldn't sit there like a kid kicking someone in the shins ...
I realise hard drugs and piracy are illegal, which is why I mentioned the word "legalised". In addition, a gun kills people. Heroin, when taken safely does not, neither does an ISO file.
I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as safe heroin. But you are still completely missing the point. Drugs and piracy have nothing to do with firearms. So I'll state the point again. A firearm is controlled by a human. Therefore, a gun does not kill. Yes, a gun contains the lethal force, but it will not act on its own. It cannot act on its own. Just like I could use my hands to provide lethal force, my hands are not acting independent of what I want them to do, they are doing what I tell them. But since you insist on using examples that have nothing to do with the topic: ISO files will not install themselves until someone installs them. Heroin will not inject itself in to someone with out someone injecting it. None of them are capable of any activity on their own, they require humans.
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Re: United States Gunlaw(s)

Post by Tripp » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:16 am

First, I think Tech is right. Neither of those examples have any relevance to this topic in my eyes. I also agree with him with self defense. If someone is threatening my life with a serious weapon, and I have a gun, I will use it if I have too. Remember, just because someone shoots someone else in self defense doesn't mean he didn't try an alterative or does it mean it would kill him. Personally, I would shoot them in the foot/hand(not a major body part) in order to imbolize them and not kill them.

Also, to sum up Tech's paragraph, in the end the choice is with people, the society, the indivual. Just because you have a gun lying in front of you doesn't mean you have to touch it, use it, or have anything to do with it. And like that, the gun will stay a gun. Not a deadly firearm. Same with heroin. Just because you can say, find it on the streets doesn't mean you should guy out and buy it. Same effect. Until someone else buys it, which you know will happen, it remains heroin. It doesn't hurt anyone on it's own. In the end, the people are really hurting themselves by using heroin.
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