Retake the Streets!

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Jim_UK
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Retake the Streets!

Post by Jim_UK »

In the UK we have a situation whereby it is not safe to be on the streets alone after dark in most areas and at any time in some.
This is because of gangs of feral youths that roam the streets like packs of animals (sorry to the animals for saying that). In their boozed up state they abuse, vandalise, beat up and even murder anyone that gets in their way.
Almost weekly we have instances of murders by knife or by being kicked to death.
These kids in the main are the product of dysfunctional families but should we make that an excuse for this sort of behaviour.
Taking them to court has little effect as they often stand there laughing and smirking as the oh to lenient sentence is passed down. A suspended sentence for GBH with defence solicitor claiming that since being caught they have got their act together, got a job interview (for benefit of court visit) and are now living with girlfriend who is expecting their baby.
Oh No! Here comes the next feral kid of the next generation.

I really do not exaggerate the situation and there is no way that I would go out after dark into the town centre where I live. (Small town with a population of about 15,000)
These kids are to be seen in quite large groups knocking back the vodka, strong lager and alcohpops.

If we are to retake the streets and make them safe for decent law abiding folks what are we to do. The residents of the UK are really getting desperate for a solution.
Any of you that have seen the films "Death wish" will know what I would like to see but what is the best legal way forward.

Jim
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Liquinn »

Yes, I wonder what the streets of the US are like, I'd also like to see a solution to this.
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Techie-Micheal
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Techie-Micheal »

Liquinn wrote:Yes, I wonder what the streets of the US are like, I'd also like to see a solution to this.
Depends on where you live. Where I live, I have no problem going out after dark, alone. Back home, the same is true. However, some places I wouldn't dare venture out during the day alone, much less at night. You can't have a blanket statement like that. ;)
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by stickerboy »

I can't say that I know what to do or how to take the streets back, but I would like to add that where I stay - I rarely venture out after dark, unless I am in a car or a Taxi.
3 times I have been jumped by these neds/chavs/whatever you want to call them - the last time leaving me almost hospitalised it was that bad. I limped for a week.
I love walking and used to walk home from work almost every night. I don't walk past the end of my street now :(

Our systems seem to be too leanient (sp?) on them these days, leaning more towards rewarding them (yes, in certain cases I have seen/heard of this happeining).
I think we need to be tougher on the sentances we give them. It might sound seriously harsh, but the phrase "you get what you give", to me sounds fair.
Along the lines of "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you".

I agree that not everywhere is affected by this, but the places that are affected need something.
Are we to be a society that lives in fear?
I should hope not.
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Techie-Micheal
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Techie-Micheal »

Well, I know of a couple of people here in the US that went around their neighborhood with video cameras recording the violence and crime and sending it to police and news organizations. One would even send the tape to the spouse where prostitution was involved. A bit dangerous to go around gang-infested neighborhoods with a video camera, but it is certainly one way and has been effective.
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Kieran007 »

Jim, I'm very pleased to see someone posting up this kind of thing. I've had a similar view point to you for some time.

We have a very similar situation to what you described here in Leeds, certain areas more than others of course, but the problem is really very widespread. I have friends who have been mugged on more than one occasion and one friend who had his house broken into twice in one week. Gangs hanging about on the streets is a common sight as are fires in skips and vandalism on cars.

The police are always quick to respond if you call them but nothing is ever actually done to stop it happening in the first place or to reprimand the individuals concerned. These youths are out of control and something needs to be done. Its about time we started taking a more heavy-handed attitude; creating repercussions that these troublemakers actually fear rather than laughing at.
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Techie-Micheal »

I'm showing my ignorance here, but does the UK not have a Community Watch program, or at least the towns/suburbs? Back home we do and while it isn't as active as others, I think knowing that the community is watching each other helps deter crime to a certain point.
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Kieran007 »

Such watch programs do exist, but they are ineffective due to where they lead;

1) Community Watch program encourages vigilance
2) Good evidence is presented by the community to police of misdemeanors
3) Youths involved are given lenient sentences that they brag about to friends or they are let off because they are too young to be given any meaningful punishment.

So the cycle repeats.
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by ChrisRLG »

Also where most of the neighbourhood watch groups are, is not in the town centers - where most of the trouble is.
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Techie-Micheal
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Techie-Micheal »

Kieran007 wrote:Such watch programs do exist, but they are ineffective due to where they lead;

1) Community Watch program encourages vigilance
2) Good evidence is presented by the community to police of misdemeanors
3) Youths involved are given lenient sentences that they brag about to friends or they are let off because they are too young to be given any meaningful punishment.

So the cycle repeats.
Then that's not the fault of such programs, but rather the judges' decisions.

Just like here in the US, drunkards driving tend to get off easy.
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Jim_UK »

Techie-Micheal wrote:Just like here in the US, drunkards driving tend to get off easy.
That is not the case here though Michael. It is the motorists that are targeted as they produce revenue.
You are unlikely to see any police patrolling these sink areas but you are likely to see them harassing motorists for speeding, no insurance, out of date road tax etc etc etc.
I do not condone breaking any of those laws nor do I blame the police as they are only doing what they are told to do. I blame the courts and I blame the law. The law for not being strong enough and the courts for not coming down heavily on the miscreants (unless they be motorists of course)

Victim of crime to police operator (911 to USA): Can you send someone around please as there is a burglar ransacking my garage.

911 Operator : I am sorry but we have no one available at the moment

Victim : But he is still on the premises and you could easily catch him.

911 Operator : Look sir I have already told you that we can do nothing about it as we have no spare manpower

Victim : I am sorry to bother you again but it does not matter as I have shot the burglar - perhaps you could call the coroners office for me.

Within minutes an armed response team (S.W.A.T.) arrives fully tooled up and there is a police helicopter hovering overhead.

Police officer (having taken measure of the situation) :I thought you said you had shot the burglar.

Victim : I thought you said there was no manpower to spare! ;)

That just about sums up the situation over here. Even the "Home secretary" (responsible for law and order) says that she is too afraid to go out by herself in the evening.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politi ... 353761.ece
Do you think for one moment that she lives in some run down slum - does she heck. If she is afraid then the rest of us should be absolutely terrified.
I live in the "nice part of town" but would not dream of moving far from my home at night. If I heard someone smashing my car up (yes it does happen even in nice "quiet" towns over here now) I would not go out but would phone the police. The graveyards are filling with folks that try to protect their property from the mindless feral yobs that inhabit the streets. Of course if I did phone them they would not send anyone to investigate maybe for ages. One report in my local paper was of a burglary victim that did not get anyone come out to investigate for 3 days. (I guess the burglar had made good their escape by then)

Do I sound incensed by the goings on in this once pleasant land. Too damned right I am.

Jim
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Techie-Micheal »

Jim_UK wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:Just like here in the US, drunkards driving tend to get off easy.
[...]
Yikes. That sounds worse than over here, at least where I live and the surrounding areas. The police response is usually pretty good. At least from what I've heard on the police scanner. They do prioritize (any police department has to), but generally a robbery takes precedence over say a welfare check. I'm not sure what it is over there as jail and prison are not the same thing over here, but robbery and burglary are also different over here. Maybe that's some of the cause of issues? The laws are such that some things don't take precedence when they should? I don't know, I'm trying to honestly understand. :)
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Nicholas the Italian
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Nicholas the Italian »

cherokee red wrote:Our systems seem to be too leanient (sp?) on them these days, leaning more towards rewarding them (yes, in certain cases I have seen/heard of this happeining).
Techie-Micheal wrote:Just like here in the US, drunkards driving tend to get off easy.
Oh, the world is little then.
Reminds my of Marco Ahmetovic, a rom nomad living in Italy, whose (still ongoing) story almost caused an uproar here.

Last April he was driving his van at about 120kph near a disco parking lot. He was drunk.
He ran down 5 minors, killing 4. He didn't stop, was eventually tracked and caught by Police.
Detained for 6 months and put on trial, he was condemned to 6 years of house arrests.
Now, he's a nomad, so he doesn't have a "house".
A friend offered to house him in an apartment of his residence. This residence is on the sea, with private shore, beach umbrellas, lawn chairs and everything.
He's been hired to promote a brand of jeans. Must be earning big bucks.

Moral of the story: if you're not an italian citizen, don't pay taxes, drive when drunk, improvise a race on road, kill four, don't stop, you get 6 years of free holidays at the sea and a well-paid job.
(The guy's comment: "I have faith in Italian justice". Lucky you. I don't.)

http://www.agi.it/italy/news/2008010815 ... 6-art.html
PS: the guy is currently in prison, not for the incident, but for an attempted robbery one year earlier.

But yeah, politicians have other priorities, like saving their own a$$e$ (see news about Italy these days... but that's another story).
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Nicholas the Italian
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Nicholas the Italian »

Did I cause a mass suicide? :roll: Not my intention...
I was just pointing out that weak laws and those-with-power caring for other things don't encourage honesty. (Not that these are the only causes, of course.)
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Re: Retake the Streets!

Post by Jim_UK »

I am afraid that the UK may be beyond help due to the incompetence of our government. They were warned that the opening of our borders to all members of the EU would lead to an influx of criminals from countries such as Bulgaria. Here we have the proof as we are now told that since they were allowed in that pickpocketing has gone up by 700% and that there are organised gangs of small children at work either stealing or begging to finance large mansions back home for the masterminds. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 247820.ece

As if we did not have enough criminals of our own in the UK. Now we are importing some more.

Stop the ship I want to get off.

Jim
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