websites that build for one browser

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SamG
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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by SamG » Thu May 01, 2008 2:13 pm

ElbertF wrote:If you want it to look pretty, upgrade. If you don't care, I don't care either.
I'm sympathetic, but I'm also a Win2K user here and there, and you can't upgrade from IE6 under Win2K. Until Win2K is orphaned (which is not until 2010, IIRC), I think that web developers ought to be careful about assuming that people who don't upgrade don't care. IMHO. :)

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by phpDummie » Thu May 01, 2008 2:17 pm

SamG wrote:I'm sympathetic, but I'm also a Win2K user here and there, and you can't upgrade from IE6 under Win2K. Until Win2K is orphaned (which is not until 2010, IIRC),...
Not only Win2K is using IE6. The current distribution of WinXP is shipping with IE6 too.

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by SamG » Thu May 01, 2008 2:19 pm

XP users have the option of an IE7 upgrade. The point is that Win2K users have no such option.

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Dogs and things
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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by Dogs and things » Thu May 01, 2008 2:44 pm

My site's browser stats:
Internet Explorer = 79,45% of which IE6 = 50,41% and IE7 = 49,24%
Firefox = 18,41%
Safari = 0,98%
Opera = 0,93%

This means that +/- 40% of all my visitors use IE6.

Should I consider them dummies I'm not interested in?

No, because they would consider me a dummy they're not interested in. :P

And the idea is that I want the people that find my site to come and see it, that's what I build my site for, they're my visitors and I consider their visit a privilege and they deserve to be treated as good as possible.

Not coding for IE6 is like refusing people without bigbrand watches to enter in your bakery, simply because you think everybody should be using bigbrand watches, or have blond hair.
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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by ElbertF » Thu May 01, 2008 3:17 pm

SamG wrote:I'm sympathetic, but I'm also a Win2K user here and there, and you can't upgrade from IE6 under Win2K.
Do you really care for shiny buttons when you're browsing with your v6 under 2k? As I said before websites should be at least accessible in IE6 but if you want the full experience, use a modern browser. IE6 is like VHS, millions of people still use it but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make DVD's.

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by SamG » Thu May 01, 2008 3:22 pm

Do you really think that as a web designer you can penalize me for using Win2K, where the modern browser IS IE6? My point is that at that point, when web designers start dictating that their sites won't work under otherwise supported products, it's the web designer that doesn't care, not the visitor. We're not talking just about shiny buttons, but about an attitude. You accused visitors for not caring to upgrade, and I'm pointing out that there is a legitimate (it seems to me) point of view where it's really the designer that doesn't care.

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by jaunty_mellifluous » Thu May 01, 2008 5:40 pm

I do care for my site and that it works with other browsers. But it can really get very annoying sometimes. So people tend to give up.

Internet Explorer 6 is just outdated.
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Dogs and things
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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by Dogs and things » Thu May 01, 2008 6:08 pm

A browser that's being used by a big percentage of your visitors is not outdated.
You should take those people into account, in my opinion.

And coding for IE6 is not really that difficult, there´s plenty of simple solutions for most common problems available. Once you know them there´s no problem really, the problem is getting to know them.
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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by ElbertF » Thu May 01, 2008 6:32 pm

SamG wrote:Do you really think that as a web designer you can penalize me for using Win2K, where the modern browser IS IE6? My point is that at that point, when web designers start dictating that their sites won't work under otherwise supported products, it's the web designer that doesn't care, not the visitor. We're not talking just about shiny buttons, but about an attitude. You accused visitors for not caring to upgrade, and I'm pointing out that there is a legitimate (it seems to me) point of view where it's really the designer that doesn't care.
It's not that I don't care, but it's just not worth my time and money. The only reason that I can think of that you are forced to use W2K is that you're with a company that uses custom software that won't work on another system, and the company doesn't care. I also think situations like these are exceptions, I'd much rather put my effort in compatibility with screenreaders and mobile phones then with ancient insecure software. By the way, FF2 works fine on Win2K doesn't it?

Win2K will no longer be supported in little over a year from now, would that be a good time to move on?

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by SamG » Thu May 01, 2008 6:57 pm

ElbertF wrote:It's not that I don't care, but it's just not worth my time and money.
You're free to make that decision, but that isn't what you said. I'm not here to haggle over whether people ought to move on from Win2K, whether it's worth someone's time and money to do so, whether people who don't don't care, etc. I did think it worthwhile to mention that that isn't your decision as a web developer. You build your site(s) as you like, but don't arbitrarily accuse people of laxness of some sort as part of the justification for your choices.

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by SneakySimian » Thu May 01, 2008 7:08 pm

Dogs and things wrote:A browser that's being used by a big percentage of your visitors is not outdated.
You should take those people into account, in my opinion.

And coding for IE6 is not really that difficult, there´s plenty of simple solutions for most common problems available. Once you know them there´s no problem really, the problem is getting to know them.
Of course IE6 is outdated. Just because people still use it, doesn't make it any less old. Windows 2000 is 9 years old (it was released 1999, IIRC). Just because people still use it, that doesn't mean it isn't old.

I'm not saying people shouldn't make their websites work for as many browsers as possible, but there comes a time when enough is enough.

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by ElbertF » Thu May 01, 2008 7:13 pm

SamG wrote:[..] You build your site(s) as you like, but don't arbitrarily accuse people of laxness of some sort as part of the justification for your choices.
Fair enough, I can only speak for myself. Perhaps my points are more valid in 2010. :)

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by Dogs and things » Thu May 01, 2008 8:23 pm

SneakySimian wrote:Of course IE6 is outdated. Just because people still use it, doesn't make it any less old. Windows 2000 is 9 years old (it was released 1999, IIRC). Just because people still use it, that doesn't mean it isn't old.

I'm not saying people shouldn't make their websites work for as many browsers as possible, but there comes a time when enough is enough.
If you´d call it backdated I´d agree with you, but outdated doesn´t sound correct to me.

A matter of interpretation perhaps, but I can´t consider a tool 40% of my visitors use outdated.
Last edited by Dogs and things on Thu May 01, 2008 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by phpDummie » Thu May 01, 2008 8:27 pm

Companies out there would kill for 40% of the market.

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Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by SneakySimian » Fri May 02, 2008 1:26 am

Dogs and things wrote:
SneakySimian wrote:Of course IE6 is outdated. Just because people still use it, doesn't make it any less old. Windows 2000 is 9 years old (it was released 1999, IIRC). Just because people still use it, that doesn't mean it isn't old.

I'm not saying people shouldn't make their websites work for as many browsers as possible, but there comes a time when enough is enough.
If you´d call it backdated I´d agree with you, but outdated doesn´t sound correct to me.

A matter of interpretation perhaps, but I can´t consider a tool 40% of my visitors use outdated.
Looks like PayPal agrees. Enough is enough. http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?s ... 1007EAGYEU

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