websites that build for one browser

Discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users.
Forum rules
General Discussion is a bonus forum for discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users. All site rules apply.
User avatar
drathbun
Former Team Member
Posts: 12204
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: TOPICS_TABLE
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by drathbun »

Every person on the internet is a potential customer. Even if you aren't selling something to make money, you are selling something: your content. If you don't want people to view it / use it, then why put it on the internet to begin with?

It's your choice to turn-away a certain percentage of your potential customers. According to this site that is nearly 40% of the customers. And those numbers are current as of March, 2008. This site shows IE6+7 with a large percentage of users still, along with some disclaimers about how statistics can be misleading.

For one of my domains IE is 65% of the total traffic for 2008. Of that number, IE6 is 61.77% of the traffic and IE7 is 38%. For another site IE is only 24% of the traffic, and IE6 is 70% and IE7 11% of that number. For yet another IE is under 7% of the total traffic. But of the IE traffic, IE6 is over half of the amount.

The bottom line as I see it (this is my opinion, of course) is that you can certainly choose to block or not design for a specific browser. But before you do, maybe you want to see how many of your "customers" are using that browser to visit your site? It only seems smart to me.
I blog about phpBB: phpBBDoctor blog
Still using phpbb2? So am I! Click below for details
Image
phpDummie
Registered User
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:09 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by phpDummie »

The responsibility of the Web designer is to provide the product, in this case it would be a Web site or even a single page, in accordance with established technical standards. If such a Web site passes W3C validation, it should be displayed the same way in any browser. It is a shame that major market players and standard-setters themselves as Microsoft choose to disregard their responsibility in adhering to similar standards and make their browser compliant. (instead of being busy implementing yet another security hole).
User avatar
LEW21
Registered User
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:51 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by LEW21 »

drathbun wrote:If you don't want people to view it / use it, then why put it on the internet to begin with?
I want people to view it / use it, but I can't find any reason why I should work much more to allow accessing my page with a browser that isn't a browser. If I would be payed to make it accessible from IE, I would maybe try to do it, but for free? Never.

Also, MSIE 6.x is currently used only by 34.1% of Polish people, when new site will be opened it will be ~28%. And phpBB3.PL users are more technically advanced people, so I would ban max. 10% users, most of them creating another forum about everything and nothing with max. 5 users.
ElbertF
Registered User
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:41 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by ElbertF »

LEW21 wrote:With IE I can't browse some valid pages, compliant to all W3C standards (like the project of new phpBB3.PL), so it's not full Internet browser; I could only call it "part of the Internet browser".
That goes for all browsers, not a single one follows W3C's standards completely. Also, the internet is much more then just the http and ftp protocols so not even the most advanced browsers can browse through 100% of the web.
User avatar
Dogs and things
Registered User
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:04 am
Location: Spain
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by Dogs and things »

You should design and code your site in the first place for your users,

And rather then taking the w3c standards and certain browser's interpretation of those standards into account you should have as your first reference your user's standards.

If you feel you don´t need to do that and/or if you don´t mind treating badly to a large percentage of your users that's all up to you, it's your site.

But I can't consider people who refuse to make their site cross-browser compatible as concerned designers/webmasters.

To me broken layouts are a clear sign of poor interest in the site's visitors, in me, it's like receiving a cup of cold coffee. :(
For phpBB2 support visit phpBB2refugees.
User avatar
LEW21
Registered User
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:51 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by LEW21 »

Dogs and things,

If I would want to make my site IE6-compatible, I would have to drop some of its features. For example, I would have to resign from using XHTML2 in my site's wiki, because it doesn't have <img/> tag and IE6 doesn't support adding images by <object/> tag. I would have to use XHTML1 (which doesn't have so good methods of structuring text (XHTML2 has <section/>s and <h/>s)) or some other format, that wiki editors would need to learn only for editing my wiki.

Also, thanks to CSS3, I can do things, that I could never do without it. For example, I don't know how to make an image that would look like rounded corner, and I can't use these from prosilver - I need bigger border radius. And you know what? I could just use (-moz-/-webkit-)border-radius CSS property, and browsers will automagically make it for me.
User avatar
Dogs and things
Registered User
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:04 am
Location: Spain
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by Dogs and things »

I understand what you mean,

But I think you should consider in the first place what's the present for many of your visitors and decide whether you want to take into account what everybody is able to see, because some are not as advanced as others, or simply go for the future that is allready part of a part of your users' present.

If you feel you should disable a considerable part of your visitors that's fine for you, I wouldn´t do that.

Unfortunately a good part of the internet-users are not exactly in the fast lane when it comes to keeping up with modern standards and practices and I prefer to keep up with them instead of running away from them. Just give it a few years and things will look better.
For phpBB2 support visit phpBB2refugees.
User avatar
Dogs and things
Registered User
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:04 am
Location: Spain
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by Dogs and things »

A_O_C wrote:there have been numerous times that ive tried connect to phpbb.com with FF and the page would time out.
I believe this is more likely due to a problem that has Firefox rather then phpbb.com. I notice the same problem with FF since the last two updates.

I´m waiting to see if a new update comes out that will fix this problem and if it doesn´t I'll delete FF completely and do a fresh install of the latest version.

It won´t be the first time that one of their updates screws up older updated versions for me. ;)
For phpBB2 support visit phpBB2refugees.
User avatar
A_O_C
Registered User
Posts: 2383
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:26 pm
Location: phpbb_

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by A_O_C »

god0fgod wrote:If it is my website, I do allow you to continue.
perfect example! text at the top that says "you must download such-and-such browser" with a big BSOD picture in the middle. you have to scroll to the bottom to click the "ok, continue anyway" link. :roll:

sorry god0fgod, but i have to agree with Dogs and things on this one...
Dogs and things wrote:can't consider people who refuse to make their site cross-browser compatible as concerned designers/webmasters... broken layouts are a clear sign of poor interest in the site's visitors
User avatar
drathbun
Former Team Member
Posts: 12204
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: TOPICS_TABLE
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by drathbun »

Eh, rounded corners on images are not that important. :) If you can create your site in such a way that it degrades nicely, nobody will ever know the difference.

As far as IE6... I use it simply because I am required to at work, and I often work from home. I've tried Firefox and didn't like it, and it's simply easier to continue using what I have. As a result, I am presenting a different opinion. It is ultimately your choice how you build your site. And it sounds like you have researched your target market so you know what to expect. What else can you do?

You have set certain design requirements. Those requirements don't allow IE6. You have researched your potential market and determined that the potential losses of customers (or visitors or whatever you would like to call them) is acceptable. Carry on. :)
I blog about phpBB: phpBBDoctor blog
Still using phpbb2? So am I! Click below for details
Image
User avatar
jaunty_mellifluous
Registered User
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 1:59 am
Name: Asad Kay
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by jaunty_mellifluous »

God save us from the wrath of Internet Explorer 6. Amen!
Stay Cool!
User avatar
thecoalman
Community Team Member
Community Team Member
Posts: 4083
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by thecoalman »

LEW21 wrote: New version of phpBB3.PL will ban IE6 - somebody using so old and so bad browser just can't create good forum. I will try to make it compatible with IE7, but if it will not want to work, I will also ban it. IE8 will be supported - it IS a Internet browser.
You can do that but if for example you ban all IE version you'll be banning about 75%+ of your traffic if your site represents the typical user. My stats are around that and I've seen many other reporting the same thing. Fact is your average user is going to be using IE.

I'd instead suggest simply displaying a message that this site doesn't function properly with X browser if you're going to go that route.

Should be noted that IE isn't the only browser on the market that isn't fully compliant.

http://acid3.acidtests.org/
“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I have found several thousand things that won’t work.”

Attributed - Thomas Edison
ElbertF
Registered User
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:41 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by ElbertF »

LEW21 wrote:If I would want to make my site IE6-compatible [..]
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for banning IE6. I make sure my websites are at least accessible and look somewhat decent in IE6, but I'm not going to stress over every little design flaw (like ugly PNG images). If you want it to look pretty, upgrade. If you don't care, I don't care either.
User avatar
thecoalman
Community Team Member
Community Team Member
Posts: 4083
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by thecoalman »

Last I checked IE6 was relatively small percentage of users anyway so its really almost a non-issue. Only reason I could see for banning a browser would be security reasons. I saw a post and article where E-Bay was considering banning some browsers over security concerns, that makes sense...
“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I have found several thousand things that won’t work.”

Attributed - Thomas Edison
User avatar
drathbun
Former Team Member
Posts: 12204
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: TOPICS_TABLE
Contact:

Re: websites that build for one browser

Post by drathbun »

thecoalman wrote:Last I checked IE6 was relatively small percentage of users anyway so its really almost a non-issue.
I assume you mean your own site(s)? If you have a link to a good web site that shows overall stats (I tried to link a few in a prior post) I would love to see it.
I blog about phpBB: phpBBDoctor blog
Still using phpbb2? So am I! Click below for details
Image
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”