What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

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Farmer Dusty
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What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by Farmer Dusty » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:49 pm

Years and thousands of posts ago, I launched my phpBB chat board. For me, it's always been a monumental task to keep pace with updates and changes. Most of the changes improved stability and welcome features that made phpBB a joy to tinker with. Every change though, appeared to create a clog of users seeking help to correct one thing or another. Now, my log-ins to the support team appear to out number the members?

Today, I read somebody's criticism over what he believes, is most people who create a phpbb board just for the sake of creating one. Sadly, I think he might be right. Why? Not because they just want one, it's because they can't comprehend the complexity.

The phpBB is or was, a welcome invention. The latest version of phpBB, particularly related to customizing even the board logo, however, is the epitome of unnecessary complexity and almost certain to drive away even more people. For the very few struggling to create their board logos, good luck. My logo will remind me of better days.

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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by JimA » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:07 pm

We always welcome feedback, it's one of the building blocks of open source software. Everybody has a voice and everybody that wants to contribute is very much welcome to and encouraged to do so. :)

I've been around for quite some years here, and in my experience we've done a lot to improve the usability of phpBB through those years. I remember the days that we didn't have extensions and every MOD install or phpBB update was a massive nightmare to support. Simply because people had to do manual code changes in many instances in which even the smallest of errors could cause the board to be broken.

Now, are there things we can improve the make phpBB even easier to use? Of course there are, we're well aware of that. Take a look at for example a proposal for improving updating in future phpBB versions. It's just that everybody involved with the project is strictly a volunteer and our team isn't really that big. We have a lot of ideas and get a lot of great feedback, but with time and resource limitations, it can be hard to incorporate everything. We're not ignoring you, some things just have more priority than others.

Is there anything specific that makes you feel like your feedback isn't valued? Additionally, there's an extension that should make changing your board logo relatively easy, it's here (3.1) or here (3.2).
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Farmer Dusty
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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by Farmer Dusty » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:12 pm

Why isn't your post spam?

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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by .m. » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:25 pm

^ well, that was the response to your feedback.

I sent a unsolicited PM / email (without invitation) - that can be called a spam ;)

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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by JimA » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:28 pm

Farmer Dusty wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:12 pm
Why isn't your post spam?
I don't know what you mean with that. I believe I addressed all of the points you made in your post.

If you have a different opinion, that's fine. We can have a discussion about this, I assume that's why you posted in our discussion forums. But it would help the discussion if you responded more constructively.
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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by RMcGirr83 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:25 pm

Farmer Dusty wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:12 pm
Why isn't your post spam?
Because all the links he posted are internal to this domain phpbb.com? You do know what the term "spam" means, yes?
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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by Farmer Dusty » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:54 pm

JimA wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:07 pm
We always welcome feedback,...I've been around for quite some years here, and in my experience we've done a lot to improve the usability of phpBB through those years...
I'm certain that there is sincerity in your opinion, but the complexity of what is being done with 3.2, for instance, can't possibly be considered "usability". Particularly with the board logo. IMO, the logo is paramount for a professional looking site. It has now been made a clumsy and technically over built gadget that only a technophobe could love. Why the devil would you want to destroy a perfectly functioning process for such an important mod? Are you old enough to remember the Edsel?

I looked over the process and it looked to me as though only 15 members found it workable. Now I believe what that critic said about most people don't use their phpBB's and I believe it's because you're missing the input of the end user.

Here's some positive feedback - stop driving end users away with unnecessary changes. You have a fantastic product staffed with great people to maintain it. Make it easier to use. Thanks.

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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by DavidIQ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:34 pm

What, exactly, about changing the logo is more difficult now than it was in say 3.0? On the surface it looks to be the exact same process...
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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by Farmer Dusty » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:44 pm

Henh. I can see there's no bias there. Got anything positive to contribute?

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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by DavidIQ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:52 pm

Farmer Dusty wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:44 pm
Henh. I can see there's no bias there. Got anything positive to contribute?
I'm sorry maybe I missed something. You posted the following:
Farmer Dusty wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:54 pm
I'm certain that there is sincerity in your opinion, but the complexity of what is being done with 3.2, for instance, can't possibly be considered "usability". Particularly with the board logo. IMO, the logo is paramount for a professional looking site. It has now been made a clumsy and technically over built gadget that only a technophobe could love. Why the devil would you want to destroy a perfectly functioning process for such an important mod? Are you old enough to remember the Edsel?
If you're not looking to improve some process or usability in our software then what exactly is the point of your topic? You're supposedly giving "constructive" feedback, specifically about changing the logo, but it is as useful as receiving "A general error has occurred" message in an operating system. Very little changed in how the logo is presented in the header between 3.0 and 3.2 so was trying to figure out what you were on about. If this sort of feedback is not what you're intending then..
:?:
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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by JimA » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:29 am

Farmer Dusty wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:54 pm
Particularly with the board logo. IMO, the logo is paramount for a professional looking site. It has now been made a clumsy and technically over built gadget that only a technophobe could love. Why the devil would you want to destroy a perfectly functioning process for such an important mod?
Like David said, changing your board logo hasn't changed much, if at all.

What you used to do for 3.0 was to edit the template and CSS files and replace the standard logo image file with your own. That's still very much possible in the newer versions. The only thing we've added is another route to go through with extensions which people usually tend to find a lot simpler to do. But if you prefer the old way of changing the logo, that's totally fine and still usable. Also in 3.2.

As I said above, and did sincerely mean, your feedback is important to us. So what exactly is the problem with using the old way of changing the logo? Where have we made things more complex for you?
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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by Farmer Dusty » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:04 am

DavidIQ wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:52 pm
Farmer Dusty wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:44 pm
Henh. I can see there's no bias there. Got anything positive to contribute?
Now you are being deliberately obtuse. I know from experience that techies are some of the most thin skinned characters on the web and I never meant to rub you fir the wrong way, but it's your dander that's screwing up the point of this discussion index. Take a deep breath and stop with the animus. Nobody is ragging on you.

Your conduct over my critique is obscene.

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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by Farmer Dusty » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:07 am

JimA wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:29 am
Farmer Dusty wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:54 pm
Particularly with the board logo. IMO, the logo is paramount for a professional looking site. It has now been made a clumsy and technically over built gadget that only a technophobe could love. Why the devil would you want to destroy a perfectly functioning process for such an important mod?
Like David said, changing your board logo hasn't changed much, if at all.
Hogwash!

You and your poodle haven't even tried to understand what I said.

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Re: What's the point of feedback? Disappointment.

Post by DavidIQ » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:11 am

Farmer Dusty wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:07 am
JimA wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:29 am
Farmer Dusty wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:54 pm
Particularly with the board logo. IMO, the logo is paramount for a professional looking site. It has now been made a clumsy and technically over built gadget that only a technophobe could love. Why the devil would you want to destroy a perfectly functioning process for such an important mod?
Like David said, changing your board logo hasn't changed much, if at all.
Hogwash!
Once again you've not provided anything useful. Your responses to my queries for further information and your responses to other team members in this topic make it obvious that you didn't post here to provide any actual feedback. Since you're not interested in having an actual discussion and are instead more interested in hurling insults and just beating around the bush then there is nothing further to say here.
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