Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

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DavidIQ
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by DavidIQ »

Tastenplayer wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:10 pm
Yes, and if you discover an error yourself after the style has already been submitted for validation, you have to send Raul a PN telling him to deny the style. This has already happened to me.
Because before the submitted style is denied, you can't upload the improved version.
The only reason this has been happening is because the styles are validated and moved to testing in a timely manner, regardless of what is being insinuated in this topic. You shouldn't be sending any specific member a PM about this though. It should go in the style's queue discussion topic. Process adjustments are being made so that this doesn't happen as often. Thanks for bringing it up.
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by PlanetStyles.net »

DavidIQ wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:52 pm
the styles are validated and moved to testing in a timely manner, regardless of what is being insinuated in this topic.
"The current unvalidated revisions have spent an average of 40 Days in the queue."

Do you consider 40 days average "timely" for software development?

What I'm interpreting from this reply is that you: disagree there's a problem, and: are satisfied with the rate of validation?
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by PlanetStyles.net »

DavidIQ wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:52 pm
The only reason this has been happening is because the styles are validated and moved to testing in a timely manner, regardless of what is being insinuated in this topic.
Just so we're absolutely clear, it took 23 days to validate a 3-line change here: https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/styl ... lver_dark/ .

3 weeks to validate 65 bytes of changed data. Downloading the file takes longer than validating it should have. How is this okay?
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by Neculai Anisor »

You can also make this process faster by joining the team and giving them a hand :mrgreen: remember what volunteer work means Christian. You’ve been in the team already why did you left?
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by DavidIQ »

PlanetStyles.net wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:59 pm
"The current unvalidated revisions have spent an average of 40 Days in the queue."

Do you consider 40 days average "timely" for software development?

What I'm interpreting from this reply is that you: disagree there's a problem, and: are satisfied with the rate of validation?
You misunderstood what I wrote. The validation part goes by rather quickly. The testing part is where we're lagging a bit. So I'm not saying at all that there isn't room for improvement with the speed of the styles queue. I'm currently reviewing the process and making adjustments to help improve the process based on some of the feedback given here. However "trusted updates" is not something I'm going to entertain at this time.
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by PlanetStyles.net »

Neculai Anisor wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 pm
You can also make this process faster by joining the team and giving them a hand remember what volunteer work means Christian. You’ve been in the team already why did you left?
More people is a solution, but not sustainable long-term. I left the styles team because I found the work boring and mundane. There was no fulfilment in checking file diffs to see if they matched the prosilver updates between releases. The things I enjoy the most here are helping people fix bugs and helping newbies learn new skills. Although there were never prescribed quotas, deadlines or such like, I felt like being on the phpBB team was a perpetual chore. There was no satisfaction of finishing one task and starting the next. The conveyer belt of styles never stops coming, the unfinished projects never stop etc etc. I realise that these things are probably contributing to slow validation and a slow adoption of new people joining CDB team.
DavidIQ wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:49 pm
I'm currently reviewing the process and making adjustments to help improve the process based on some of the feedback given here. However "trusted updates" is not something I'm going to entertain at this time.
Sounds good. I'm not emotionally attached to the concept of trusted updates (however sound the idea is), just as long as we can reduce validation times to something sensible and frictionless. Are you able to share any high-level concepts at this stage? Any ballpark figures as to how quickly you'd like to see updates progress from submission to validation?
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by Gumboots »

warmweer wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:57 am
The idea certainly is certainly worth discussing, certainly the advantages, but let's not forget the possible drawbacks.
  • definition of trusted style developer (TSD) : precise criteria? - can a TSD be demoted? ;)
  • will there be a distinction between a RC, a validated style version, and an updated style (not yet validated)? i.o.w. versioning system?
  • will an update of a validated style eventually be validated?
  • feel free to add (no inspiration ATM)
1/ Dunno.
2/ I assumed we were talking about updates to styles which had already passed initial validation, and had been accepted for the Styles DB.
3/ It may make sense to do that for major version changes.
4/ Needz moar cookies.
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by PlanetStyles.net »

DavidIQ wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:49 pm
I'm currently reviewing the process and making adjustments to help improve the process based on some of the feedback given here.
Will there be an indication of when this has been implemented? Or were you thinking of discreet behind the scenes changes?
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by DavidIQ »

Some of the changes have been:
  • Validate (compare) against previously approved style
  • Approve if they changes look fine
  • Basically skip testing for already approved styles
If the style looks "off" then that's going to be the style author's problem. We're going to be having more a focus on obvious breaks. While reviewing the process I ran into something called SPV (Styles Pre-Validator) which we never did anything with so that will be something we'll be looking into in order to speed things up some more. If we can get that going then it'll be integrated into Titania and pre-validate styles to check for broken tags or badly formatted twig. That's just a basic wish-list though and haven't really reviewed what is involved in getting that off the ground, but shouldn't be impossible I think.

Anyhow hopefully there's some "queue relief" there somewhere.
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Re: Can we implement trusted updates in the styles database?

Post by PlanetStyles.net »

DavidIQ wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:20 pm
Some of the changes have been:
  • Validate (compare) against previously approved style
  • Approve if the changes look fine
  • Basically skip testing for already approved styles
If the style looks "off" then that's going to be the style author's problem. We're going to be having more a focus on obvious breaks.
Brilliant news! Sounds like a good compromise that should hopefully see faster approval times. I am excited to see what happens after the next version update.

SPV sounds nice too, but the above is already a nice first step.

Thank you for being receptive and reactive to feedback :)
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