things wrong with 3.0

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MrSinatra
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things wrong with 3.0

Post by MrSinatra » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:30 am

hi,

i used 2.0.x for a long time. now i have 3.0.2

two things i hate and they are related:

1. if i click a link in a post, it doesn't open in a new window or even a new tab. it goes there in the tab i am viewing, therefore navigating away from phpbb altogether. thats lame.

2. if i foolishly do this from the writing a post screen, then when i click the back button, whatever i had typed in is GONE! thats AWFUL.

first of all, #1 shouldn't happen. but regardless of if it does or not, #2 should absolutely not happen. and if for some stupid security reason its going to happen, then a user should have the option for their post to be AUTO-saved, like wordpress. manual draft saving is not good enough.

i love phpbb, but these two things are driving me nuts.

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by karlsemple » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:38 am

1) Should happen as phpBB is XHTML strict compliant and XHTML strict does not allow link to be open in a new window or tab ;) Knowledge Base - Links Opening New Windows

As for 2 I am not entirely sure what you mean, if you click the back button and then click the forwards button to go back to the posting screen any text you were typing is still there. If of course you reload the posting page it stands to reason any thing you did not save and were typing will no longer be there.
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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by MrSinatra » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:31 am

karlsemple wrote:1) Should happen as phpBB is XHTML strict compliant and XHTML strict does not allow link to be open in a new window or tab ;) Knowledge Base - Links Opening New Windows
obviously i disagree for a variety or reasons, but the main thing isi think it should be up to the board admin as to whether or not the board remains xhtml compliant or not.

in other words, fine let it be the default, but there should be an option in the ACP to configure the board to do this if the admin wants imo.
karlsemple wrote:As for 2 I am not entirely sure what you mean, if you click the back button and then click the forwards button to go back to the posting screen any text you were typing is still there. If of course you reload the posting page it stands to reason any thing you did not save and were typing will no longer be there.
here's exactly what i mean...

if i am composing a post, and during the composition i click a link in the quoted thread below or wherever, it navigates away from what i am composing, and then when i click the back button, its all gone. everything i wrote is gone. the only thingthat might still be there is the post i quoted, if i quoted a post at all.

very, VERY aggravating. never happened like that on 2.0.x

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by karlsemple » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:35 am

obviously i disagree for a variety or reasons
Yes, but you do not write the standards, neither do the phpBB devs for that matter. Agreement is not an issue if you want to adhere to a standard. The edit I linked to will change the behaviour for you :)
if i am composing a post, and during the composition i click a link in the quoted thread below or wherever, it navigates away from what i am composing, and then when i click the back button, its all gone. everything i wrote is gone. the only thingthat might still be there is the post i quoted, if i quoted a post at all.
It does not do that, if I click the link I posted now in the post review bit at the bottom it will take me away from the posting page but clicking the back button will bring me back and my post text will still be in the text box. IT will only not be their if I refresh the page. Sounds to me like your browser is not caching pages and is actually reloading them when you click back.... what browser are you using out of interest?
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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by MrSinatra » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:52 am

karlsemple wrote:
obviously i disagree for a variety or reasons
Yes, but you do not write the standards, neither do the phpBB devs for that matter. Agreement is not an issue if you want to adhere to a standard. The edit I linked to will change the behaviour for you :)
i appreciate your help and replies. but i think you misunderstand me. i am not saying phpbb3.0.x is not xhmtl compliant, i am sure it is. what i am saying is that i disagree with the goal and i disagree with implementation.

let the default install of 3.0 be compliant. but make available to admins the point and click option to not be compliant and assume the old behavior. i am not going to manually edit files to do this, (altho i appreciate your link). the reason is its not worth it since updates could overwrite such manual changes. i am hoping phpbb will incorporate my suggestions, and if not, someone will make a plugin for the ACP that allows one to enable / disable the changes your link has to get the desired behavior.
karlsemple wrote:
if i am composing a post, and during the composition i click a link in the quoted thread below or wherever, it navigates away from what i am composing, and then when i click the back button, its all gone. everything i wrote is gone. the only thingthat might still be there is the post i quoted, if i quoted a post at all.
It does not do that, if I click the link I posted now in the post review bit at the bottom it will take me away from the posting page but clicking the back button will bring me back and my post text will still be in the text box. IT will only not be their if I refresh the page. Sounds to me like your browser is not caching pages and is actually reloading them when you click back.... what browser are you using out of interest?
all i know is it has happened to me several times. typically, it works like this:

there's a thread with a post in it i use the quote button on. i start to type my comments such that they are interwoven with the quotes of the post.

then, i forgetfully click a link somewhere on the composition screen before i submitmy post. this navigates me away to wherever, and even if i click "back" right away, whatever i had typed is TOTALLY gone.

i am using IE7 on vista. but i am fairly sure i have had this happen on XP as well. i can test it later.

if there are options you think i should check, i will. but it didn't happen on 2.0

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by MrSinatra » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:20 am

am i the only one this happens to? i don't refresh the page...

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by Phil » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:22 am

MrSinatra wrote:
karlsemple wrote:
obviously i disagree for a variety or reasons
Yes, but you do not write the standards, neither do the phpBB devs for that matter. Agreement is not an issue if you want to adhere to a standard. The edit I linked to will change the behaviour for you :)
i appreciate your help and replies. but i think you misunderstand me. i am not saying phpbb3.0.x is not xhmtl compliant, i am sure it is. what i am saying is that i disagree with the goal and i disagree with implementation.

let the default install of 3.0 be compliant. but make available to admins the point and click option to not be compliant and assume the old behavior. i am not going to manually edit files to do this, (altho i appreciate your link). the reason is its not worth it since updates could overwrite such manual changes. i am hoping phpbb will incorporate my suggestions, and if not, someone will make a plugin for the ACP that allows one to enable / disable the changes your link has to get the desired behavior.
Karl has linked you to the edits necessary to change this behaviour. They are simple and straightforward and will remedy it in the manner you desire.
karlsemple wrote:
if i am composing a post, and during the composition i click a link in the quoted thread below or wherever, it navigates away from what i am composing, and then when i click the back button, its all gone. everything i wrote is gone. the only thingthat might still be there is the post i quoted, if i quoted a post at all.
It does not do that, if I click the link I posted now in the post review bit at the bottom it will take me away from the posting page but clicking the back button will bring me back and my post text will still be in the text box. IT will only not be their if I refresh the page. Sounds to me like your browser is not caching pages and is actually reloading them when you click back.... what browser are you using out of interest?
all i know is it has happened to me several times. typically, it works like this:

there's a thread with a post in it i use the quote button on. i start to type my comments such that they are interwoven with the quotes of the post.

then, i forgetfully click a link somewhere on the composition screen before i submitmy post. this navigates me away to wherever, and even if i click "back" right away, whatever i had typed is TOTALLY gone.

i am using IE7 on vista. but i am fairly sure i have had this happen on XP as well. i can test it later.

if there are options you think i should check, i will. but it didn't happen on 2.0
I'm unable to reproduce this on IE7 on Windows Server 2008.
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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by stevemaury » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:30 am

Perhaps you missed this when Karl first posted it but you can make links open if new windows if you wish:

http://www.phpbb.com/kb/article/links-o ... w-windows/
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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by MrSinatra » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:38 am

guys,

i got that. i know i can edit the files. i think its asking too much esp since updates could overwrite the changes.

in any case, my main concern now is why seemingly no one else can reproduce what i can reproduce every time. surely this behavior can not be specific only to me, and would be a worry for phpbb if it was not only to me?

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by stevemaury » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:44 am

What is your support question? The behavior you describe, whatever its cause, will be fixed by the MOD we linked.
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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by Son of a Beach » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:38 am

1. Even if phpBB provided an option for links to open in new windows, that would mean that phpBB was NOT standards compliant. So that would be a bad idea. However, they do the next best thing, and they do tell YOU how YOU can break the standards compliance of your own phpBB installation to easily achieve what you want to do.

2. Have you tried any other browsers on the same PC to see if you have the same problem? This doesn't happen for anyone else (that we know of so far), so it would be interesting to see if it happens for you on a different browser.

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by MrSinatra » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:55 am

i'm not sure why being a slave to a standard is more important than usability, to the point where even the non-default option is verboten. call me crazy, i put the premium on usability, not attaching logos.

in any case, the support question here is clear. i have stated it now several times. i will try it out on a mac and see if FF or Safari do it.

i appreciate those who are trying to help. thx. i'll report back asap.

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by Son of a Beach » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:08 am

MrSinatra wrote:i'm not sure why being a slave to a standard is more important than usability, to the point where even the non-default option is verboten. call me crazy, i put the premium on usability, not attaching logos.
The standard is trying to eliminate all the problems that occur from popup, new windows without authorisation, etc. from the internet completely. This adds to overall usability (rather than just usability in this once instance).

In any case, can't you just middle-click on the link to get a new window/tab? If not configure your browser. This way it is up to the USER to decide if a new window/tab is opened or not. This is how it should be and is the ultimate in usability. The USER decides, NOT the software.

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by macgeek » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:36 am

Son of a Beach wrote:The standard is trying to eliminate all the problems that occur from popup, new windows without authorisation, etc. from the internet completely. This adds to overall usability (rather than just usability in this once instance).
One thing no one has mentioned in this topic is the reason why XHTML doesn't like creating new windows or tabs in web browsers. Basically, more and more web browsers are including technology that attempts to cut down unwanted pop-ups - a method many advertisers use. A part of the reason for XHTML's acceptance is the growing number of non-PC based web browsers, such as smartphones, appliances like PS3, etc. - all of which work better if XHTML compliance is practiced on the web site. I think it would be bad for someone to enable the 2.x feature - if there was one - and then force visitors to configure their web browsers so that he can enjoy the message board. I think phpBB is in parallel with the growing trend of making web sites XHTML compliant.

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Re: things wrong with 3.0

Post by MrSinatra » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:26 pm

macgeek wrote:
Son of a Beach wrote:The standard is trying to eliminate all the problems that occur from popup, new windows without authorisation, etc. from the internet completely. This adds to overall usability (rather than just usability in this once instance).
One thing no one has mentioned in this topic is the reason why XHTML doesn't like creating new windows or tabs in web browsers. Basically, more and more web browsers are including technology that attempts to cut down unwanted pop-ups - a method many advertisers use. A part of the reason for XHTML's acceptance is the growing number of non-PC based web browsers, such as smartphones, appliances like PS3, etc. - all of which work better if XHTML compliance is practiced on the web site. I think it would be bad for someone to enable the 2.x feature - if there was one - and then force visitors to configure their web browsers so that he can enjoy the message board. I think phpBB is in parallel with the growing trend of making web sites XHTML compliant.
the instructions to do the old behavior are provided by phpbb, not me. they seem to think its worthy to let people know how to do it, but they refuse to make it easy to do it. i think that sucks. i don't think being xhtml compliant is more important than providing a better user exp, and i think that decision shouldn't be up to anyone but the board admin, i think its arrogant to presume to "know better."

i don't follow what you are talking about in so far as "visitors configuring their browsers so that i? ...can enjoy the msg board" please explain.

in any case...

the problem i have detailed i can reproduce 100% of the time on IE7 on vista sp1, and xp sp3.

i have tried FF on leopard, and NOT seen the issue. ditto safari.

but as i say, i can reproduce 100% of the time on the two windows machines.

i can't be the only one, can i?

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