default template isn't correct

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lifestylemaster
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default template isn't correct

Post by lifestylemaster » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:12 pm

Why the forum template to use the tag <dt> and <dd> for layout? It's not correct.
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_dt.asp
Last edited by lifestylemaster on Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Brf
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by Brf » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:13 pm

Because they are kewl 8-)

lifestylemaster
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by lifestylemaster » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:32 am

I think that the phpBB template author don't know HTML/XHTML.
Tags dt, dd, dfn, h2, h3, h4 used improperly.

prosilver phpBB 3.0 Style Sheet

Code: Select all

h1 {  /* Forum name */  }

h2 {  /* Forum header titles */ }

h3 {  /* Sub-headers (also used as post headers, but defined later) */  }

h4 {  /* Forum and topic list titles */  }

Example site http://www.phpbb.com/community/
h2 and h4 not found
h3 = "Who is online", "Birthdays", "Statistics", "Advertisement"

Why h3 heading tags used for unimportant words?

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Highway of Life
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by Highway of Life » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:41 am

lifestylemaster wrote:Why the forum template to use the tag <dt> and <dd> for layout? It's not correct.
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_dt.asp
Do you know what dt/dd tags are? :?
Do you know how header tags should be used?

You say it’s incorrect, but nothing more. Okay, thanks for the information, what are we supposed to do about it? :roll:
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lifestylemaster
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by lifestylemaster » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:59 am

Highway of Life wrote:
lifestylemaster wrote:Why the forum template to use the tag <dt> and <dd> for layout? It's not correct.
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_dt.asp
Do you know what dt/dd tags are? :?
Do you know how header tags should be used?

You say it’s incorrect, but nothing more. Okay, thanks for the information, what are we supposed to do about it? :roll:
Yes, I know, because I am web standards and SEO specialist, but my English is not good.
dt, dd http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_dt.asp
dfn http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_phrase_elements.asp

The prosilver stylesheet defined in how to use header tags h2-h4, but in the template is not used.

Right now, in the forum category/topics are not used any header tag.

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Highway of Life
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by Highway of Life » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:14 am

lifestylemaster wrote:Yes, I know, because I am web standards and SEO specialist.
Naturally, the person who designed prosilver doesn’t know how to use XHTML, then?
lifestylemaster wrote:The prosilver stylesheet defined in how to use header tags h2-h4, but in the template is not used.
Really? It’s not used in confirm_body on line 7, faq_body on lines 3 and 36, login_body.html on 8, login_forum on 3, mcp_approve on line 10, or on mcp: ban, forum, and front on lines 36, 6, and 3 respectively, nor mcp_header in three locations, logs, message... shall I go on?
I wonder what I’m looking at if it’s not <h2> that’s appearing in 74 locations in prosilver templates. :?
Or what about h4 in ucp_register, and anywhere that a custom styler might put it?
lifestylemaster wrote:Right now, in the forum category/topics are not used any header tag.

Code: Select all

<h2><a href="./viewtopic.php?f=74&t=1291065&start=0">default template isn't correct</a></h2>
really? ... what is h2?
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lifestylemaster
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by lifestylemaster » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:27 pm

Example site http://www.phpbb.com/community/
h2 and h4 not found
h3 = "Who is online", "Birthdays", "Statistics", "Advertisement"
Why h3 heading tags used for unimportant words?

Example site http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewforum.php?f=74

h2 is 1X: <h2><a href="./viewforum.php?f=74&start=0">[3.0.x] Styles Support & Discussion</a></h2>

h3 is 3X:
<h3><a href="./viewonline.php">Who is online</a></h3>
<h3>Forum permissions</h3>
<h3 class="advertisement">Advertisement</h3>

Ok, I understand, forum topics is not imported for you. For you imported only "Who is online"...

h1-h6 tags is like titles and using like priorities list 1,2,3...

http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewforum.php?f=74 priorities:
1. <h1 id="logo-banner"><a href="/">phpBB &bull; Creating Communities Worldwide</a></h1>
2. <h2><a href="./viewforum.php?f=74&start=0">[3.0.x] Styles Support & Discussion</a></h2>
3. <h3><a href="./viewonline.php">Who is online</a></h3>
4. <h3>Forum permissions</h3>
5. <h3 class="advertisement">Advertisement</h3>

Forum announcements and topics is not imported for you, because they do not contain any header.

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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by Ragnis » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:28 pm

there is nothing incorrect

h4 and h2 are defined in css file, because they are used in other files.

if somebody have defined h4 is css file, then he doesn't have to use it

xhtml validator says that, everything is ok
Last edited by Ragnis on Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry for my bad english

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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by lifestylemaster » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:44 pm

Ragnis wrote:there is nothing incorrect

h4 and h2 are defined in css file, because they are used in other files.

if somebody have defined h4 is css file, then he doesn't have to use it

xhtml validator says that, everything in ok
If you have a problem, a css file does not fit all, then can use the dynamic css file.
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/gen ... _with_php/
HTML header tags (<H1>, <H2>, <H3>, etc.) are more than a quick way to format text. Use them to define your page's organizational structure and simplify page navigation.


http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol4/html_no9.htm

General SEO: Headings, paragraphs, and other HTML elements should be used properly

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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by Ragnis » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:16 pm

lifestylemaster wrote:
Ragnis wrote:there is nothing incorrect

h4 and h2 are defined in css file, because they are used in other files.

if somebody have defined h4 is css file, then he doesn't have to use it

xhtml validator says that, everything is ok
If you have a problem, a css file does not fit all, then can use the dynamic css file.
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/gen ... _with_php/
Why to make it so difficult?
There's nothing wrong to define every page css in one css file.
Sorry for my bad english

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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:38 pm

also, the style creator gets to decide what is important and therefore does or does not need a h tag for it.

that applies to any tag that is being used.

If I create a page that says;

robert is a nut.

and decide that nut is more important than robert, then that is where I would put the h tag.
( which one depends on how big of a nut robert is. )


robert
I'm baaaaaccckkkk. still doing work on donation basis. PM your needs.

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lifestylemaster
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by lifestylemaster » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:57 pm

Ragnis wrote:
lifestylemaster wrote:
Ragnis wrote:there is nothing incorrect

h4 and h2 are defined in css file, because they are used in other files.

if somebody have defined h4 is css file, then he doesn't have to use it

xhtml validator says that, everything is ok
If you have a problem, a css file does not fit all, then can use the dynamic css file.
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/gen ... _with_php/
Why to make it so difficult?
There's nothing wrong to define every page css in one css file.
Typically, each side need h1-h4 headers, but between a few side/mod need a different style. Then there is a helpful dynamic css file.

***

phpbb.com screenshot

1. First priority (h1): phpBB • Creating Communities Worldwide
2. Second priority (h3): Who is online

If I were in the program or blind, then my logic says that this site will tell me who is on page, not more.


Image

Ragnis
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by Ragnis » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:39 pm

you think, categories should be in H ?
Sorry for my bad english

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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by Highway of Life » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:21 pm

lifestylemaster, I don’t see the point in this topic at all. I have already proven that h2 is used 174 times in the prosilver templates, h4 is used as well. You should look up XHTML, since your replies tell me you don’t completely understand the reformulation of HTML 4 as an XML 1.0 application, and thus the usage of header tags, when they should be used and why. You give no “valid” reasons why anything should change, you don’t even state what they change to, you are only saying that it is “not correct”. I’m sorry, but you’re wrong, and you’ve yet to show any actual information to back up your claims. :)
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Re: default template isn't correct

Post by lifestylemaster » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:52 pm

Header tags is for page structure. There is no reason to use the forum inside the h1-h6 tags when they do not appear correctly. Why the forum typically aside h4, if h2, h3 tags missing. If you want to highlight something in words and a header tag does not fit, then can also use the <strong> and <em> tags.

Also, using Header tags tells the search engine what "words" are important in the context of your page.
Consider <h1>,<h2>,<h3>, etc.. to be the way that you highlight important keywords. They range from H1 to H6, going from biggest to smallest.

How not to use the h1 tag?
You will find that most web sites themes have h1 used for the site name (company name, etc). This is not the right way to use it, as every page has site name and, thus, the title does not describe anything page-specific.

How to use the header tags?
Order header elements properly. For example, in HTML, <h2> elements should follow <h1> elements, <h3> elements should follow <h2> elements, etc. Do not "skip" levels (e.g., <h1> followed by <h3>).

http://www.webaim.org/techniques/semant ... tstructure
Screen reader and other assistive technology users have the ability to navigate Web pages by structure. This means that the user can read or jump directly to top level elements (<h1>), next level elements (<h2>), third level elements (<h3>), and so on. Viewing or listening to this outline should give them a good idea of the contents and structure of the page.
Pages should be structured in a hierarchical manner, with 1st degree headings (<h1>) being the most important (usually page titles or heading), then 2nd degree headings (<h2> - usually major section headings), down to 3rd degree headings (sub-sections of the <h2>), and so on. Technically, lower degree headings should be contained within headings of the next highest degree. The following outline shows the hierarchy of what a Web page might contain. In fact, it represents the hierarchy of the main content section of this page, with different degrees of headers to represent higher or lower levels of content hierarchy.
http://www.phpbb.com/community/ test in http://validator.w3.org/
Below is an outline for this document, automatically generated from the heading tags (<h1> through <h6>.)
[h1] phpBB • Creating Communities Worldwide
[h3] Who is online
[h3] Birthdays
[h3] Statistics
[h3] Advertisement

If this does not look like a real outline, it is likely that the heading tags are not being used properly. (Headings should reflect the logical structure of the document; they should not be used simply to add emphasis, or to change the font size.)

http://www.searchengineguide.com/stoney ... erform.php
Image
Image

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/test37.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5
Some people consider skipping heading levels to be bad practice. They accept H1 H2 H1 while they do not accept H1 H3 H1 since the heading level H2 is skipped.
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_hn.asp

And <dt> ja <dd> tags is not for layout.
Definition lists provide a nice hierarchy in terms of what is a title and what is normal data. The page is much more clear for browsers without CSS support. One major weakness of using definition lists is that the DT tag cannot have any other block elements (H1, H2, etc) within it, elements that are highly important for SEO.
But phpbb.com forum to use the definition tags for layout.

Code: Select all

<ul class="topiclist"> 
				<li class="header"> 
					<dl class="icon"> 
						<dt><a href="./viewforum.php?f=47">General</a></dt> 
						<dd class="topics">Topics</dd> 
						<dd class="posts">Posts</dd> 
						<dd class="lastpost"><span>Last post</span></dd> 
					</dl> 
				</li> 
			</ul> 

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