The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

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Jaymie1989
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The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Jaymie1989 »

Hi,

I started asking some questions a while ago (general question) on if Subsilver2 for phpBB3 be dropped.
Jackal wrote:
Jaymie1989 wrote: Now im wondering with the official retirement of phpBB3 in 3 and a half weeks
Assuming you mean 2?
Yea sorry, My mistake.
Jackal wrote:
Jaymie1989 wrote: will the Subsilver2 style be dropped at some point?
Not sure why you think that phpBB2 being retired would have any bearing on the phpBB3 styles life :)
Im not saying it would, phpBB2 is coming to its end and before we know it phpBB2 wont be really heard of like phpBB1, We know it existed at some point but its not around, Not with the php updated and database updates phpBB1 cannot run, Soon this will happen with phpBB2 so since phpBB2 has nothing to remind us of phpBB1 all that phpBB3 has is a style from phpBB2 just updated. So phpBB1 has gone phpBB2 is on its way, Will subsilver2 get dropped and RIP in its place with phpBB2?

What do you think? Should Subsilver2 stay with phpBB3 so we have a little memory of what phpBB2 was like or should we drop it and let it RIP with the retirement of phpBB2?
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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Acyd Burn »

Why should we drop something in phpBB3? This makes no sense. The subsilver2 style shipped with phpBB3 has nothing to do with phpBB2 and will not be dropped within the phpBB 3.0.x line.

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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by JimA »

As far as I know will subsilver2 still being supported in phpBB 3.0, but Meik has posted a blogpost that most likely subsilver2 will be dropped in phpBB 3.2.

http://www.phpbb.com/blog/2008/09/19/lo ... -ascraeus/
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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by rickymallory »

There have been a lot of rumors going around that subsilver2 style would be dropped from phpBB3 in the near future. Unless it would be removed from 3.2.0 whenever that is released. But it was Subsilver style in phpBB2 and phpBB3 had it ported as subsilver2 i think. subsilver2 doesn't have anything to do with phpBB2 except for its looks.

In my opinion it should be dropped as its mostly table based which isn't really that modern and tables arent that much fun to work with.

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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Jaymie1989 »

Acyd Burn wrote:Why should we drop something in phpBB3? This makes no sense. The subsilver2 style shipped with phpBB3 has nothing to do with phpBB2 and will not be dropped within the phpBB 3.0.x line.
rickymallory wrote: subsilver2 doesn't have anything to do with phpBB2 except for its looks.
Yea its looks, Im not saying STOP developing it, In phpBB2 there is nothing like phpBB1 in there but in phpBB3 we have the style image of phpBB2, So there is a overall view of a phpBB2 style, I just think in my honest opinion that subsilver in general speak on both subsilver from phpBB2 and subsilver2 has had its day, phpBB1 has its own unique style, phpBB2 had its own and now phpBB3 has its own, So the subsilver look is being brought forward to possibly keep its style in the work, just isnt working. every phpBB version has its own style so why bring the style of an old and about to be retired version forward to try and keep it there. Would phpBB4 have a phpBB3 style?
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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Greenweaver »

I understand your theory, but I dont' understand what you mean with "the subSilver2 style is not working with phpBB3" - (in an aesthetical sense).

It is a bit much to compare the three projects so directly. phpBB1 was of course the beginning and it did not have the same life cycle as phpBB2 enjoys (remember phpBB2 is the leading project in a sense). It is the longest serving application and the most used. So, after phpBB1 when phpBB2 came along there was lots and lots of changes of course and it had a brand new style that shipped with it giving it that instant recognition. phpBB2 is of course at this moment still active and there is a likely chance that a lot of people are still using it, we cannot be certain about the amount of boards that have not yet made the transition to phpBB3 yet.

When the development of phpBB3 began (years ago), the "subSilver" style was used initially to aid the development (it gave the development team something to use visually), because "subSilver" was the leading style it was ported over to phpBB3 - and thus it was named "subSilver2". As time went on, the development of "proSilver" started, we wanted phpBB3 to be something special and of course this meant it needed to have a brand new style to go with it, something cutting edge and dramatic.

Now, as with the transition of phpBB1 - phpBB2 the same has happened again with phpBB2 - phpBB3, but for the styling side there were a lot of major changes, especially to the layout markup. These changes almost reflect the changes in the industry, as the move away from highly using tables is now much more prominent. We know a lot of people who used phpBB2 were much more familiar and comfortable with modifying the layout with tables etc than what they are compared to phpBB3 which is more inline with todays standards. In this aspect I am referring to the people that have used phpBB2 for a number of years and not necessarily people that have came in at a time when phpBB3 has already been released.
greenweaver wrote:we cannot be certain about the amount of boards that have not yet made the transition to phpBB3 yet
So to go back to the above, the main reason why "subSilver2" exists is simply because for those in the community that have used phpBB2 and subSilver for so long we wanted them to feel comfortable in their transition over to phpBB3 - hence we added two styles to the release. The "subSilver2" style for those that enjoy that style and of course "proSilver" for those looking for something a bit different. Please remember also that a lot of people enjoy the "subSilver" style and I am sure they would be disappointed to see it go.

Besides, "subSilver" is such a novelty and iconice style - why not keep it? Perhaps you will see it return once again when we announce the release of phpBB4 ;)
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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Jaymie1989 »

I totally understand what you saying, Im not in anyway saying dont use it, I dont use it and it doesnt bother me, I just think that Its time to move forward. I just think that with the new style in phpBB3 (prosilver) it has something of its own and phpBB2 has its own style but by keeping the look of subsilver in subsilver2 kinda keeps the history of phpBB2 (when it goes) phpBB3 should me making its own history like phpBB2 did when it first came out.

Look at how prosilver is, Its go no tables and more colorful and better looking. With Subsilver2 it still have the phpBB2 look with table and a dull theme, In my opinion. Shouldnt we be looking to create new ideas and build more to phpBB3 and future version not updating and dragging along an old style that should stay with phpBB2.

Please dont mistake what im saying that phpBB2 is useless or old, I like it in it day but we have to move forward, With new software and new looks.

Its kinda hard for me to explain it, I just think subsilver2 should be left alone when the time is right, Not make it into something its not. Kinda think of it like an old dog, (in a good way) the old dog has had its day but still has its prime and uses, Good to have that everyone knows. Like a new dog needs to learn things, figure things out and it got its own life to start and build on, the old dog has already done that.

If you see what i mean?
I cant believe i just compared a phpBB style to a dogs life.
Please dont take any offense in what im saying, I dont mean it in a hostel way at all.
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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Greenweaver »

There is no offence taken, I understand where you are coming from - basically you feel phpBB3 should make it's own journey by using the path it has created for itself - and it will.

By default as you know phpBB3 uses "proSilver", there is nothing to stop people installing a different style and using that instead of "proSilver" - that is the beauty of phpBB. All we have done is provided the choice from the outset, if we never included an update of "subSilver" for phpBB3 it would have been one of the first questions asked. So I guess what I am saying is we have covered that area for the side of community that would have done the asking.

Regardless of what some people may think, the development team spend a great deal of time trying to incorporate what they feel the community would like to see most whilst still maintaining phpBB for it's original purpose - i.e a bulletin board. We have to try and cater for the community as much as we possibly can as without them there would be no point in phpBB.

History is a big part of phpBB anyway where we take great pride in what we have acheived and certainly the "subSilver" style is a big part of that history also. We can all immediately determine the difference between phpBB2 and phpBB3 visually and thus phpBB3 will certainly make it's own impact during its life cycle. There is certainly no drag factor to the aura which is phpBB3 because it incorporates the "subSilver2" style.
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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Jaymie1989 »

Greenweaver wrote:There is no offence taken, I understand where you are coming from - basically you feel phpBB3 should make it's own journey by using the path it has created for itself
WoW :shock: you summed it up in one sentence for me lol.
Greenweaver wrote:Regardless of what some people may think, the development team spend a great deal of time trying to incorporate what they feel the community would like to see most whilst still maintaining phpBB for it's original purpose
I agree and Acyd Burn, If it came across as an offensive towards you or your team I apologize i did not mean to in anyway.
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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Acyd Burn »

I took no offence, my reply was just short. ;)

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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Jaymie1989 »

:)

I just think so far every version of phpBB has made its own history, From phpBB1 to phpBB3 but in my opinion with the subsilver2 phpBB3 is holding onto phpBB2. Like helping it move along but cant really do it, like phpBB2 is to old for the power of phpBB3 so its got to stop and stay where it belongs.

If you know what i mean?
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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by sbfc93 »

In my view, subsilver should stay. Personally I don't like it, but as Acyd Burn said, is there any need to get rid of it? Some people like subsilver and subsilver based styles.

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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Kim_Possible »

I agree. There are too many subsilver2 based styles out there for phpBB3 to abandon it just yet. Most people (that I have seen) aren't using subsilver2 per se, but they do use the "code changes" for subsilver2 to update their subsilver2-based styles.

Though I won't miss it when (if?) it's gone in phpBB3.2. :D

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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by A_O_C »

i personally use prosilver (ok, prosilver with tweaks). i dont really care for subsilver2, so you wouldnt be hurting my feelings if i woke up tomorrow and it was gone. that being said, i dont think it should be dropped, as you would be (insert explicit) off alot of people that prefer subsilver2 to prosilver. :P

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Re: The Life of phpBB3's Subsilver2 style

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

phpbb is and always has been about choices.

no offense to you Jaymie1989, but this is just your opinion and I do believe that you would find yourself in the minority with that opinion. there are still many, many people that use subsilver2 and would be very upset if it was no longer available.
just like there are many, many people still using phpbb2 and are very upset that it is going away and will not be supported here.

I understand your point, however, in my opinion, keeping the subsilver2 style around has nothing to do with trying to hang on to the old phpbb2 ways a little longer or whatever.

It is simply about offering the phpbb users what they want.


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