phpBB, I need to comment on it

[sirNemanjapro]

First off hello.

I visit the board often, but I chose not to participate in writing on it. Few days back I decided reluctantly to go from vBulletin to phpBB. BackUp my database, installed phpBB3, done the conversion and its there, new install of phpBB3 with posts and users from vBulletin.

As for me to continue I must state that if it wasn't for phpBB, I possibly never would go into web design/development. So thank you people from phpBB Group, heard it or not. That said I can now continue.

What happend to you? I mean, where did you turned left? ("I knew I shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque." © Bugs Bunny).

There was some overhaul on phpBB form going from 2 to 3, but no real usability change. Simple stuff.

1. Quick reply.
2. Topic title in last post area.
3. JavaScript framework implementation, such as jQuery or Mootools.

Instead you have chosen to do the redesign and re order everything up. New smiles, suck. Thats the first thing I saw. Good header for the website douh. I really do wonder, what is going on here. I mean, you can clearly see what MODs are being created, so its logical that you implement them, in better way than the MODers.

There is still little mass control in ACP with a lot of stuff. You cant sellect all, delete all... Its all sticks and ropes, as it was before.

Comparing vBull with phpBB is no match, but comparing SMF and phpBB still no match, SMF is a better system. I hope we wont sit around waiting for v.7 to get a proper board.

I know you are free, ad and donation powered community, but even so, you should have set a higher goal for yourself. Even to decide to go commercial, and sell each board for $5, no less, no more than that amount you will be riding on the wings of joy, trust me.

--
Nemanja Ćosović

[A_O_C]

1. Quick reply

You're beating a dead horse with a stick. This has been discussed numerous times and the Developers have made it clear the quick reply is not in phpBB's foreseeable future.

2. Topic title in last post area

This feature is built-in already; it's just that prosilver / subsilver2 do not have the code in it to show it. Have a look at karlsemple's post ("Jackal" on his board) here. Its a one-file edit for each style.

3. JavaScript framework implementation, such as jQuery or Mootools.

I will leave this for others as I am not JavaScript expert (and dont want to be).

New smiles, suck.

I personally like them. At first, I thought they were ugly too. Now, I prefer these to the phpBB2 smilies.

I mean, you can clearly see what MODs are being created, so its logical that you implement them, in better way than the MODers.

Just because a MOD is made doesnt mean it automatically gets implemented into the core code of the next version. I have 2 MODs that I know for fact may never make it into the core code (they arent as popular as others). They do, however, serve a purpose on my board. Another one of my MODs is quite popular, but it is still the Developers' decision as to whether it will be useful to the whole community (I'm still scratching my head at how birthdays are useful ).

There is still little mass control in ACP with a lot of stuff. You cant sellect all, delete all... Its all sticks and ropes, as it was before.

Can you expand on this? I am trying to figure out what part you are referring to. The system gives you more control over your board than phpBB2 ever had / will.

[sirNemanjapro]

You are quoting me, but pulling overall feeling I have for phpBB3 out of context.

phpBB3 is a step forward from phpBB2, definitely , I'm just trying to point out my impressions of it. I waited for things to get down a bit, and to see a bigger picture.

As for those things I said that are must for today versions of bulletin board.

Couldn't they, developers, see that implementation of QuickReply would save time for people when upgrading their board? If it were part of the system you wouldn't have to wait for upgrade until MOD is updated also.
Also there would be no possible conflict's with the board, when there is after installing MODs, for unexperienced users.
They could implement their own way how it would function, and if it botherded them so much, they could just disabled it in ACP, so if the user wanted he could just ENABLED it with one click away. No, they have chosen to leave it as is. Its stupid not to open eyes to something that is obviously there and people need it. Look the download numbers for QuickReply and AdvancedQucikReply and than tell me its not needed.

About the topic title in last post area. When Im talking about phpBB3 Im talking about OUT OF THE BOX features that are right there. So, someone made an error in that case.

Neighter am I, but one jQuery with few effects like scrolling, accordion and fade would make this board a hell of a competition for others, even commercial ones. Its about 20kbs overall on the entire board. Get the picture?

I think birhdays on large scale boards are obsolete, today forums are more and more obsolete, only those "old" are still going on. Today Facebook and MySpace have taken over the "birthday" thing. So I agree there with you.

Yes I can. For instance I want to select multiple smiles and DELETE them, no option. I cant sort them how I would like it. Example in boards, you have to synchronize one at the time instead select one I want and click synchornize. A lot of stuff are still left dead in the water. Moderator/Administrator cant select posts he want to delete. There is no soft delete. I could go on and on.

I love the thing they did with different database support and the design of the board overall. I just think that they could spend less time design the board and move the allocated man power to getting the board to be more and more usable.

--
Nemanja Ćosović

[Kellanved]

There are features implented in phpBB3; there are features that are not. You seem to believe that phpBB3 was written in an instant. It was not; the feature set was decided upon long before jQuery et al made their appearance.

You seem to believe that quick reply is important; not everybody agrees.

You seem to believe that SMF is better; that's your right. Others value features like the number of supported DBMS, the search and authentication plugins for easy integration, features like custom bbcodes, the security record, the cache implementation, the powerful template system, the UTF8 support...

I really do not see any discussion value here. If you prefer flashy and easily bolted on features; that's your right.

[sirNemanjapro]

I'm sorry, Kellanved. It seems to me that you haven't read my previous post.
As you can see I have complemented superb work in backend, also I'm not in favor of SMF, nor vBull, nor IPB. I'm just saying how I see it, not to disparage phpBB, but to point out his weaknesses, and when they would be taken care of, the phpBB would be a killer board, for sure.

Once again, I'm sorry for the intrusion, I don't think and/or wish anything bad about people at phpBB. Sincere apologies.

--
Nemanja Ćosović

[ivantoar]

Comparing vBull with phpBB is no match, but comparing SMF and phpBB still no match, SMF is a better system.

First, it's not fair to compare phpBB with vBulletin. And about SMF, yes it's true I think that SMF is better, but phpBB got better Admin Control Panel (yeah.. just that ).

There was some overhaul on phpBB form going from 2 to 3, but no real usability change. Simple stuff.
1. Quick reply.

How can a forum do not have a quick reply... I am disappointed too.

[Erik Frèrejean]

There was some overhaul on phpBB form going from 2 to 3, but no real usability change. Simple stuff.
1. Quick reply.

How can a forum do not have a quick reply... I am disappointed too.

Because a lot of users don't see the value of a quick reply in the core. It will only increase the number of nonsense posted on a discussion board. One of the great things of phpBB is the MODDB which contains a lot of validated modifications to alter the working of phpBB in a way that it fits your need. If you have a quick search in the MODDB you'll find 4 quick reply modifications for phpBB 3.

[ivantoar]

Because a lot of users don't see the value of a quick reply in the core. It will only increase the number of nonsense posted on a discussion board. One of the great things of phpBB is the MODDB which contains a lot of validated modifications to alter the working of phpBB in a way that it fits your need. If you have a quick search in the MODDB you'll find 4 quick reply modifications for phpBB 3.

Maybe it's good to decrease spams/garbage posts, but I think it's better if we can disable or enable it, but well.. coder's decision. But I found out that modding is not easy, there's still no solution to automatically add template edits into themes.

Yes it's true. One of the greatest thing in phpBB is that mods are validated (SMF does this too I think).

[A_O_C]

You are quoting me, but pulling overall feeling I have for phpBB3 out of context.

phpBB3 is a step forward from phpBB2, definitely , I'm just trying to point out my impressions of it. I waited for things to get down a bit, and to see a bigger picture.

So you like phpBB3. A lot of other people do too! So now that we established your overall feeling, lets move on.

As for those things I said that are must for today versions of bulletin board.

Says who?

Couldn't they, developers, see that implementation of QuickReply would save time for people when upgrading their board?

How is this saving time upgrading? I don't use / need quick reply.

If it were part of the system you wouldn't have to wait for upgrade until MOD is updated also.

Most* MODs written for phpBB 3.0.0 work fine on 3.0.1, 3.0.2, 3.0.3, 3.0.4, etc.

Also there would be no possible conflict's with the board, when there is after installing MODs, for unexperienced users.

We have support forums (for the default package) and forums where users can seek help installing MODs.

They could implement their own way how it would function, and if it botherded them so much, they could just disabled it in ACP, so if the user wanted he could just ENABLED it with one click away. No, they have chosen to leave it as is. Its stupid not to open eyes to something that is obviously there and people need it. Look the download numbers for QuickReply and AdvancedQucikReply and than tell me its not needed.

Maybe I wasn't clear. How about this - just because a MOD is made and is popular doesn't mean it will make it into the core code of the next version. This is ultimately the developers' decision. Like Erik said, phpBB is a discussion board.

About the topic title in last post area. When Im talking about phpBB3 Im talking about OUT OF THE BOX features that are right there. So, someone made an error in that case.

I don't see the error. It's provided OUT OF THE BOX. It's the template that must incorporate it. You wouldn't expect to install phpBB3 and let it sit there, would you? No, you have to configure it to your liking. Honestly, one file edit is not a lot.

Neighter am I, but one jQuery with few effects like scrolling, accordion and fade would make this board a hell of a competition for others, even commercial ones. Its about 20kbs overall on the entire board. Get the picture?

Sure, but this still doesn't make me a JavaScript expert.

I think birhdays on large scale boards are obsolete, today forums are more and more obsolete, only those "old" are still going on. Today Facebook and MySpace have taken over the "birthday" thing. So I agree there with you.

Good.

Yes I can. For instance I want to select multiple smiles and DELETE them, no option.

Okay, I can see the validity in this.

I cant sort them how I would like it.

Really? What do you think the up / down arrows do?

Example in boards, you have to synchronize one at the time instead select one I want and click synchornize.

Are we still talking about smilies?

A lot of stuff are still left dead in the water. Moderator/Administrator cant select posts he want to delete.

Clicking on the Moderator Control Panel link while inside viewtopic will allow you to go to a page that does this.

There is no soft delete.

There is a MOD for this, but Meik (Acyd Burn) has already stated that this is planned for 3.2.x (this could change though).

I just think that they could spend less time design the board and move the allocated man power to getting the board to be more and more usable.

Each version of phpBB I've used is usable. Like Henry (Kellanved) said, phpBB3 was not written overnight. It actually dates back to May 2003.



* Most does not imply all.

[Dog Cow]

I just think that they could spend less time design the board and move the allocated man power to getting the board to be more and more usable.

Each version of phpBB I've used is usable. Like Henry (Kellanved) said, phpBB3 was not written overnight. It actually dates back to May 2003.

It dates back to 2002, even.

But the point is, a list of features was set and the programmers opted to stick to it. This is a good idea, because it prevents what is known as "feature creep" where more and more features keep getting added in, and they may not all be well-thought of or planned.

What's the solution for this? Well you start a new version such as 3.2 which includes even more features, some of which the original poster has mentioned.

It's not that the phpBB development team is against adding new features, it's that they want to stick with the features they planned for the current version, and then add more features for the next major version.

[Techie-Micheal]

I don't understand, what's the fascination with quick reply and why is it a must? As for jQuery/Mootools/whatever, I requested that a long time ago.

[A_O_C]

It dates back to 2002, even.

I had a feeling someone would call me on that.

That just happened to be the earliest announcement of 2.2 development I could find.

[onehundredandtwo]

Couldn't they, developers, see that implementation of QuickReply would save time for people when upgrading their board? If it were part of the system you wouldn't have to wait for upgrade until MOD is updated also.

Quick-Reply is a big no for me. For starters, not everyone likes it (including me). For me it just takes up unnecessary space. Quick-Reply is also not a traditional feature of the forum, probably another reason why it hasn't been implemented.

There are also so many MODs for the Quick-Reply, I won't list them all but they are very popular. I don't see any reason why people can't just install it as a MOD if they want it that bad. As Erik has already stated, it just takes up room.

Also there would be no possible conflict's with the board, when there is after installing MODs, for unexperienced users.
They could implement their own way how it would function, and if it botherded them so much, they could just disabled it in ACP, so if the user wanted he could just ENABLED it with one click away. No, they have chosen to leave it as is. Its stupid not to open eyes to something that is obviously there and people need it. Look the download numbers for QuickReply and AdvancedQucikReply and than tell me its not needed.

If we did this for every popular MOD then phpBB would end up being more than 100MB, a coding nightmare for the developers. So what, there are thousands of people who use Quick-Reply? There are probably more people who don't use it then the number of people that do use it.

Neighter am I, but one jQuery with few effects like scrolling, accordion and fade would make this board a hell of a competition for others, even commercial ones. Its about 20kbs overall on the entire board. Get the picture?

But then to get it to work with phpBB would be a nightmare, and not all of the effects would be needed. In the end it would probably be better to have a few functions for the scroll effects etc. and not use jQuery.

Yes I can. For instance I want to select multiple smiles and DELETE them, no option. I cant sort them how I would like it. Example in boards, you have to synchronize one at the time instead select one I want and click synchornize. A lot of stuff are still left dead in the water. Moderator/Administrator cant select posts he want to delete. There is no soft delete. I could go on and on.

phpBB is still developing. There were hundreds of features that were added for v3. I would rather that features were added over time and become less buggy, than have a set of features that were a nightmare for the administrator and the end user. I recall you mentioning that phpBB should have less conflicts and become easier for the administrator, just adding all of these features in one go would not go well.

[quote"sirNemanjapro"]I love the thing they did with different database support and the design of the board overall. I just think that they could spend less time design the board and move the allocated man power to getting the board to be more and more usable.[/quote]
Remember that styles are not really created by the developers. You may think this, but so many people that come here cannot wait to get the coolest style available for their board. You say the appearance is not important? I would much rather have a clean interface for reading and posting and a few less features, than a horrible-looking board that is jam-packed with features and confuses everybody.

[ivantoar]

For me it just takes up unnecessary space. Quick-Reply is also not a traditional feature of the forum, probably another reason why it hasn't been implemented.

Well do Quick Reply really takes that much space? Oh well, it's getting traditional.

It's not that the phpBB development team is against adding new features, it's that they want to stick with the features they planned for the current version, and then add more features for the next major version.

I like the way the development team sticks to the schedule and consistent with their own plan. But I think sometimes situation changes the plan.

[sirNemanjapro]

I didnt want to reply to this anymore but I see that there is no other way.

There was some overhaul on phpBB form going from 2 to 3, but no real usability change. Simple stuff.
1. Quick reply.

How can a forum do not have a quick reply... I am disappointed too.

Because a lot of users don't see the value of a quick reply in the core. It will only increase the number of nonsense posted on a discussion board. One of the great things of phpBB is the MODDB which contains a lot of validated modifications to alter the working of phpBB in a way that it fits your need. If you have a quick search in the MODDB you'll find 4 quick reply modifications for phpBB 3.

What are moderators for? Everyone of us that has a board must take care of it, its a full 24h job.
Those a lot of users are pretty small amount in favor of those who have installed the MOD. I don't see how you and 20 other people constitute as a majority?

As for those things I said that are must for today versions of bulletin board.

Says who?

Well, me, and common sense and the way where internet development and usability is going today. Turning blind in front of this will not benefit anyone, just the opposite.

Couldn't they, developers, see that implementation of QuickReply would save time for people when upgrading their board?

How is this saving time upgrading? I don't use / need quick reply.

You are very self centered person, are you not? If the phpBB was created for you and few of other people, than OK. But, as we can see, its not. Since you start from yourself I will also.
When you need to upgrade the board, you first must check if the MOD has green light (validated) from the phpBB to be installed on the next version (upgraded one). If its not, you will have to wait for it to be so.
Than when you can upgrade you need to reapply the MOD so it would work again. I don't want to write the whole procedure, here it looks so simple, in most cases its not.

So to save time for everyone here, those who don't want it, and those who want it. Make it a part of phpBB and make us chose what we want. When phpBB developers upgrade the board they automatically update the "MOD" in this case be it, QuickReply.

If it were part of the system you wouldn't have to wait for upgrade until MOD is updated also.

Most* MODs written for phpBB 3.0.0 work fine on 3.0.1, 3.0.2, 3.0.3, 3.0.4, etc.

Keyword is most. I don't want to risk it.

Also there would be no possible conflict's with the board, when there is after installing MODs, for unexperienced users.

We have support forums (for the default package) and forums where users can seek help installing MODs.

As I said before, it saves time for everyone. For developers not to answer simple questions and get distracted, for people not having to do all the "What am I going to do?" stuff, and ultimately the bandwith.

They could implement their own way how it would function, and if it bothered them so much, they could just disabled it in ACP, so if the user wanted he could just ENABLED it with one click away. No, they have chosen to leave it as is. Its stupid not to open eyes to something that is obviously there and people need it. Look the download numbers for QuickReply and AdvancedQucikReply and than tell me its not needed.

Maybe I wasn't clear. How about this - just because a MOD is made and is popular doesn't mean it will make it into the core code of the next version. This is ultimately the developers' decision. Like Erik said, phpBB is a discussion board.

No, it doesn't. Why make things easier for people to write or as you said, to discuss? That is like giving a car a door on the side instead on the roof.

About the topic title in last post area. When Im talking about phpBB3 Im talking about OUT OF THE BOX features that are right there. So, someone made an error in that case.

I don't see the error. It's provided OUT OF THE BOX. It's the template that must incorporate it. You wouldn't expect to install phpBB3 and let it sit there, would you? No, you have to configure it to your liking. Honestly, one file edit is not a lot.

OOTB is not one file edit for the end user. Configuring something and editing it are two different things.

Neighter am I, but one jQuery with few effects like scrolling, accordion and fade would make this board a hell of a competition for others, even commercial ones. Its about 20kbs overall on the entire board. Get the picture?

Sure, but this still doesn't make me a JavaScript expert.

Its not the matter of expertise its just common look at the things. Look here (http://jqueryui.com/demos/) and here (http://demos.mootools.net/Effects), than you can answer me on the following question. Do you think there are some effects that can be implemented in phpBB or not?
Its not so hard to implement it as a default feature, and it would give a great dynamic. Even in 2002. they could think about some JavaScript they could implement for something. Its not 2008. and above technology.

I cant sort them how I would like it.

Really? What do you think the up / down arrows do?

Sorted by the name, by alphanumerical position, sorted by size, by dimensions... I do think you are mocking me here.

Example in boards, you have to synchronize one at the time instead select one I want and click synchornize.

Are we still talking about smilies?

No.

A lot of stuff are still left dead in the water. Moderator/Administrator cant select posts he want to delete.

Clicking on the Moderator Control Panel link while inside viewtopic will allow you to go to a page that does this.

Was it too hard to put little check box next to the post for admin and mod users? Simplicity and usability.

There is no soft delete.

There is a MOD for this, but Meik (Acyd Burn) has already stated that this is planned for 3.2.x (this could change though).

LoL. I am talking about OOTB and things that should be implemented, and you are going back to there is a MOD. This is one very important MOD, if someone has done it, why not call up the moder and say "You want to do this in phpBB as a part of phpBB, so we can implement it easier. We don't have that much time, and your work would be a tremendous asset.".

I just think that they could spend less time design the board and move the allocated man power to getting the board to be more and more usable.

Each version of phpBB I've used is usable. Like Henry (Kellanved) said, phpBB3 was not written overnight. It actually dates back to May 2003.

Where did I said its not usable? But the problem lies there its just "usable to a degree". It can and should be much more. Nor did I said it was written over night. I have very high respect for the people that developed or contributed to the development of phpBB.

* Most does not imply all.

Says who, you? What about other people?

I don't understand, what's the fascination with quick reply and why is it a must? As for jQuery/Mootools/whatever, I requested that a long time ago.

It's needed. Some people consider it a very usable feature, some do not. Well, why just not make it a part of phpBB and enable in the ACP to ENABLE or DISABLE it. Its wont affect you or others that think its obsolete, and it would mean a lot to those who need it. Once again, look to the number of downloads for those MODs.

Couldn't they, developers, see that implementation of QuickReply would save time for people when upgrading their board? If it were part of the system you wouldn't have to wait for upgrade until MOD is updated also.

Quick-Reply is a big no for me. For starters, not everyone likes it (including me). For me it just takes up unnecessary space. Quick-Reply is also not a traditional feature of the forum, probably another reason why it hasn't been implemented.

There are also so many MODs for the Quick-Reply, I won't list them all but they are very popular. I don't see any reason why people can't just install it as a MOD if they want it that bad. As Erik has already stated, it just takes up room.

Same as my previous answer was. Create it, and make us chose to use it, or not. Simple. For one, I dont think all popular MODs should be implemented when they reach certain amount of popularity. But stuff I am pointing out is not really a MOD, its more of a necessity.

Maybe at some point they can decide to chose 5 MODs, after some vote, to be included in the next development. I can bet that one of them will be QuickReply.

Also there would be no possible conflict's with the board, when there is after installing MODs, for unexperienced users.
They could implement their own way how it would function, and if it botherded them so much, they could just disabled it in ACP, so if the user wanted he could just ENABLED it with one click away. No, they have chosen to leave it as is. Its stupid not to open eyes to something that is obviously there and people need it. Look the download numbers for QuickReply and AdvancedQucikReply and than tell me its not needed.

If we did this for every popular MOD then phpBB would end up being more than 100MB, a coding nightmare for the developers. So what, there are thousands of people who use Quick-Reply? There are probably more people who don't use it then the number of people that do use it.

Again its not what I said. I expected one thing and one thing only to be implemented. If the MOD itself is no biger than 5KB of text, how could it effect the size that dramatically like 100MB.

I'm not suggesting that they make a circus out of it, just a more usable board.

Neighter am I, but one jQuery with few effects like scrolling, accordion and fade would make this board a hell of a competition for others, even commercial ones. Its about 20kbs overall on the entire board. Get the picture?

But then to get it to work with phpBB would be a nightmare, and not all of the effects would be needed. In the end it would probably be better to have a few functions for the scroll effects etc. and not use jQuery.

Again, not what I said or thought of.
Three effects are all that needs. For example accordion for ACP switching between the tabs.

Yes I can. For instance I want to select multiple smiles and DELETE them, no option. I cant sort them how I would like it. Example in boards, you have to synchronize one at the time instead select one I want and click synchornize. A lot of stuff are still left dead in the water. Moderator/Administrator cant select posts he want to delete. There is no soft delete. I could go on and on.

phpBB is still developing. There were hundreds of features that were added for v3. I would rather that features were added over time and become less buggy, than have a set of features that were a nightmare for the administrator and the end user. I recall you mentioning that phpBB should have less conflicts and become easier for the administrator, just adding all of these features in one go would not go well.

Maybe its just because of that. Everything is done in one whole step. It should have been taken in little steps, and I agree with you.
When I said conflicts I thought at conflicts that can arise from usage of MODs that are common. QuickReply for instance, if its not updated to the same version as board. And honestly things I request for ACP are just some check boxes and few sorting options.

I love the thing they did with different database support and the design of the board overall. I just think that they could spend less time design the board and move the allocated man power to getting the board to be more and more usable.

Remember that styles are not really created by the developers. You may think this, but so many people that come here cannot wait to get the coolest style available for their board. You say the appearance is not important? I would much rather have a clean interface for reading and posting and a few less features, than a horrible-looking board that is jam-packed with features and confuses everybody.

I really like argumented discussion but this is not one of those.
One guy or two or six did the design of the board, someone else needed to create the template from that design. In the work flow of web development there are frontend and backend developers.
I guess even if they did everything over CSS they couldn't make a black background, with gray text on it.
The design is nice, and something different and new. I salute to that, but no answer from developers, mind the angry Kellanved (kidding ), that can say what distracted them from asking the community what do they need.

In the end I respect the developers decision to go their way, because its their. I am only saying that some stuff needed to be incorporated in phpBB to make it a complete and full rounded discussion system.

--
Nemanja Ćosović