Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

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DavidIQ
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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by DavidIQ » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:16 pm

Pony99CA wrote:I have a proposal for custom BBCode improvements, for example, so how do I get you to actually read the post?
That's a perfect example of something that could go in the bug tracker ;)
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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by onehundredandtwo » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:18 pm

EXreaction wrote:Open source has absolutely nothing to do with how it is developed. As has been said countless times, if you want to make changes you are free to fork the project and manage it yourself.
And that's exactly why Area51 was invented, for users that have forked their phpBB software and decided to show what changes they have made, so that phpBB may include it in the official release. ;)

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by Phil » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:25 pm

onehundredandtwo wrote:
EXreaction wrote:Open source has absolutely nothing to do with how it is developed. As has been said countless times, if you want to make changes you are free to fork the project and manage it yourself.
And that's exactly why Area51 was invented, for users that have forked their phpBB software and decided to show what changes they have made, so that phpBB may include it in the official release. ;)

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No, Area51 is meant to test trunk (or, as of late, the 3.0 branch) -- nothing to do with forking.
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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by onehundredandtwo » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:38 pm

I may be wrong, but I thought it was for development in general, bug reports, code suggestions and phpBB development discussion.

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by Phil » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:42 pm

It's the developer's test board for phpBB3 -- it's also the place general phpBB Development related things are addressed. That being said, it's still nothing to do with forks ;)
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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by jvidia » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:20 pm

nice nice news ;)

Is there any possibility of including in the 3.0.6 the WPM (Welcome PM) feature ?

It would be a great feature to enable a user to get a custom Welcome PM after the 1st login.

Thanks and keep the good work !

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by Pony99CA » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:34 pm

EXreaction wrote:
Had I known I would certainly not have done that.
Ok, so you would rather have used an old and unsupported software package that is given no features or fixes at all than a software package that is current, supported, and where some features, with the proper reasoning, are added to the package?
I wondered about that myself. I think the only reasonable conclusion to draw is that he would have moved to another board system instead of upgrading.

I thought phpBB 2 was OK (especially for free) and did most of what I wanted. I think phpBB 3 is far better and does almost everything I want. (Although I do wish there was still an ACP method to change colors in phpBB 3, as in phpBB 2, to help recover old color schemes.)

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by EXreaction » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:43 pm

You can change the theme with the theme editor (although it usually stores that in the DB instead of the files, and the DB gets refreshed when installing mods so any changes made to the db theme gets lost).

I found the theme editor in phpBB2 to be rather clunky actually. If you want to change the colors, this is a very nice and easy way to do it:
http://beta.colorizeit.com/

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by A_O_C » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:57 pm

jvidia wrote:Is there any possibility of including in the 3.0.6 the WPM (Welcome PM) feature ?
:arrow:
Acyd Burn wrote:This topic is not for suggesting we add feature X, Y and Z to 3.0.6, please stick to discussing what we have announced.

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by narqelion » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:30 am

EXreaction wrote:Open source has absolutely nothing to do with how it is developed. As has been said countless times, if you want to make changes you are free to fork the project and manage it yourself.
If not in definition then certainly in culture. What open source project team advocates forking over compromise and open communication with the user community? I guess I am used to a much more symbiotic relationship in open source. Do not get me wrong, forking is necessary and good but should be a last resort when the development of a project is no longer meeting the needs of the user community. The Nagios fork was necessary and welcome from my perspective as a longtime user, but maybe just the kick in the pants needed to get the project back on track. Maybe not, only time will tell.
This statement from Chris really is the sticking point for me though,
ToonArmy wrote:It was discussed in private forums. ;)
I will never understand the current mindset that the project plans have to be discussed in private amongst the staff only before decisions are made regarding design and feature set. I do not get why any open source project has to do that, it's not like you have to worry that someone is going to steal your intellectual property. I personally would have liked to see that part of the development process come out from behind the curtain as I suspect that given the opportunity, the user community could add value to those discussions. I get that this is not the thinking of the project team, I just believe it is a significant lost opportunity to improve upon the product. As an aside on this subject, I highly recommend "The Wisdom of Crowds" by James Surowiecki. :)
EXreaction wrote:narqelion, exactly how "open" was development for 2.x? From what I remember, the developers were far less open to suggestions.
I did not really have a choice back then, what happened with IB forced my hand and my options were very limited. SMF was the new kid on the block unproven while phpbb had been around a few years and was relatively stable so it was the de facto choice from my perspective. It needed only two hacks to meet my needs to replace IB and that is how it stayed for 5+ years.
EXreaction wrote:Ok, so you would rather have used an old and unsupported software package that is given no features or fixes at all than a software package that is current, supported, and where some features, with the proper reasoning, are added to the package?
Had I taken the time to investigate version 3 or ask the questions that I asked last week back then, I would not have converted to version 3 last year. I would have stayed at version 2 until a replacement was identified. A friend contacted me in need of help converting when she did not receive help here in the support forum. When I became aware of the EOL issue I did hers as well as mine and every other 2.x board I was responsible for creating in the past 5 years. Simply a matter of expedience. As others here have stated, the versioning indicated a maintenance release and I did not investigate further. Definitely a failure on my part by not digging deeper. In fairness though, that should not have been required. There really should be some project roadmap published so users can make educated decisions on whether this is the right application for their needs, and not just based on short term needs but long term philosophies.
EXreaction wrote:Did you even think about what you said before you hit the submit button?
Each and every time, you? ;)

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by Brandon05 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:52 am

Looks like some very interesting things for phpBB 3.0.6 to look forward too. Jeeze time has gone by so fast. Seems like yesterday I was running a phpBB 2 board haha. Pretty soon phpBB 4 will be in the midst of us. :lol:

Good work phpBB Team! :ugeek:

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by ameeck » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:59 am

There isn't any official roadmap of phpBB development, but I think you can make a fair idea of what will happen in the next years with Olympus and Ascraeus. AFAIK, releasing a development calendar was always denied because it's an implication on the developers to release new version according to the time-plan, that hasn't always worked and past experience says that it's better to take your time to release a bug-free version.

Brandon05: There will be no phpBB4 for quite some time, the new development branch will be release as 3.2.x and is being developed as 3.1.* (more info about this on wikipedia - kernel versioning scheme).

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by jeremyotten » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:29 am

Hi guys,

If you could add a very good WYSIWYG editor (like www.almsamim.com) to 3.06 default or a version if it. Or maybe FCKEditor this would Rock this forum software!!

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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by Paul » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:46 am

jeremyotten wrote:Hi guys,

If you could add a very good WYSIWYG editor (like http://www.almsamim.com) to 3.06 default or a version if it. Or maybe FCKEditor this would Rock this forum software!!

Acyd Burn wrote:This topic is not for suggesting we add feature X, Y and Z to 3.0.6, please stick to discussing what we have announced.
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Re: Discuss: Blog post about phpBB 3.0.6 plans

Post by Kellanved » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:44 am

Narqelion, you seem to have some wild misconceptions regarding open source. You also seem to be intent on misinterpreting anything said by phpBB team members, including myself.

Free and Open Source means that you are free to do as you like. On the flipside, it also means that developers are free to do as they like. The concept that open source developers are to be the slaves of their community, forced to implement any whim of single community members for free is ridiculous. You will find no mature project where such a policy is in effect (your example isn't even open source and certainly doesn't behave as you state). This is free software, we are free and so are you.

Allow for a simple thought experiment. Assume, we accept any feature request, as you seem to like:
  • We would run out of manpower for any meaningful development with ~1 hour
  • Implementing feature after feature will result in bloat
  • Contradicting feature requests will cause major problems
  • Requirement documentation, informal as it is, will become impossible
  • withing a month the software will degenerate in slow, unmaintainable hulk of code
  • After that month, the last developer will quit the project
Note that this is about the same for commercial and free projects.


Obviously that won't fly. Somebody has to weed out the features, decide what happens. The community as a whole doing it is a nice thought, but hardly feasible. For once, such petition based programs fall victims to vocal minorities very easily. Moreover, look at the form of the feature requests. Most are "I want a Pony" style, with no thoughts about the needs of other boards on the one hand and technical feasibility on the other.

Instead of doing any target oriented thinking, you seem to be very happy do pass judgment from a very lofty position on a few dozens of people - excuse my small pang of self pity - who sacrifice their free time to provide you with the best solution and service they are able to provide. For free, with no strings attached.

Of course there is communication happening, hidden to the general community. A lot of it about the organization and legal issues, a lot about sharing the work and availability. Again, you will find no real project where the different teams do not use internal communication channels.

In the end, I can only ask you to open your eyes. There is no topic in phpBB Discussion that doesn't get read by at least a few team members. There is not a single well-written feature analysis that did not see extensive discussion. On the contrary, almost all of them were accepted and introduced into the 3.0 code base.

There are a few things that really do not help the willingness of any contributor to discuss matters. One of them is yelling "And I want a Pony", meeting them with a wall of barely concealed contempt is another.
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