Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

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umarizal
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Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by umarizal »

My friends, I love phpBB, but your competitors are quickly surpassing the resources, and it is important to point out, very useful features like SEO, visual text editor, warning system with diferent points for scoring and many other functions.

The MyBB is a free forum that most impressed me recently. Is very similar to the famous and valuable vBulletin. Have portal system (CMS?) and much more.

Do not be mad at me ...

But I have the impression that nobody is falling behind and losing the post of best free forum script.

What do you think of this, my friends?

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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by AdamR »

phpBB does not strive to "compete" per se with other bulletin board software, but rather meet the needs of phpBB's user base and community. If the developers feel users have a need for a certain feature to be included in the software, it will be added in a future release. One area where the developers get these ideas is from the MODding community.

As always, discussion is welcome about how said features will benefit the community. :)

To note however, I assume when you say "SEO" you are referring to friendly URLs. While these URLs do, indeed, make it easier for humans to distinguish the page they are on or are going to browse to (and I personally would like to see this in a future release of phpBB), from a modern search engine's perspective, the actual content of the page takes a much higher priority in search results, regardless of the URL.

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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

can you supply some evidence to support your conclusions about the status of phpbb in the BB industry?

I doubt it.
according to one google search, there are approximately 19.5 million phpbb3 boards out there.
that is probably a low number.

I don't have stats on this , but I would imagine that there are several hundreds if not thousands of new downloads every day.

you also can not compare free open source software versus commercial software in that way either.

bottom line is that what you said is just your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it just like we are entitled to disagree with it.


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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by SamG »

Opinions about what phpBB ought to be are pretty diverse. The gap between "lite" and "full-featured" forum solutions is getting narrower, but there is still a general sense out here that one admin's "must-have" feature is another admin's "bloat." We have that even within the phpBB community, where some see the so-called traditional phpBB approach, the lean-and-extensible approach, as being compromised by phpBB 3--making phpBB 3 a step backward, not forward.

So it does seem to boil down to opinion about what a proper BB solution in general looks like, and about what a proper phpBB release looks like more specifically, all of which is more like shifting sand than something solid. And Robert is right that open source software doesn't always compare well with software actually meant to draw in the paying crowds, it seems to me.

I personally like the idea that a true variety of solutions exists. I've not been real happy, generally, with "one-size-fits-all" solutions and "out-of-the-box" solutions. Once committed, a certain amount of flexibility and control is lost. Some of the full-blown CMS solutions are not very lite or friendly in my eyes--and one reason why people use WordPress as a CMS, I think.

Different solutions offer different strengths, and end users benefit from the choice, I think. phpBB is just one solid player among several, and it fits nicely into its own space, not the space defined by other products. I don't see how that's a bad thing.
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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by greggish »

I think microblogging will become the preferred platform for online discussion soon. I think many will choose to run something like Status.net over traditional forum software.
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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by umarizal »

AdamR wrote:phpBB does not strive to "compete" per se with other bulletin board software, but rather meet the needs of phpBB's user base and community. If the developers feel users have a need for a certain feature to be included in the software, it will be added in a future release. One area where the developers get these ideas is from the MODding community.

As always, discussion is welcome about how said features will benefit the community. :)

To note however, I assume when you say "SEO" you are referring to friendly URLs. While these URLs do, indeed, make it easier for humans to distinguish the page they are on or are going to browse to (and I personally would like to see this in a future release of phpBB), from a modern search engine's perspective, the actual content of the page takes a much higher priority in search results, regardless of the URL.

- Adam
Thank you for your reply.

Well, when I quote other systems free forum, just to compare what others have and I think nobody should have. When he said that he is getting back, just quoted a phrase common way sites that evaluate scripts forum on the internet.

When I mentioned the SEO, I referred not only to friendly urls.

I referred also to other techniques that are not currently employed in phpBB and that make a site more visible in search results at Google, Yahoo and others.
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:can you supply some evidence to support your conclusions about the status of phpbb in the BB industry?

I doubt it.
according to one google search, there are approximately 19.5 million phpbb3 boards out there.
that is probably a low number.

I don't have stats on this , but I would imagine that there are several hundreds if not thousands of new downloads every day.

you also can not compare free open source software versus commercial software in that way either.

bottom line is that what you said is just your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it just like we are entitled to disagree with it.


luck,
robert
I agree that you have the right to disagree, that's freedom of expression, and thank God we have!

As to what I said, I draw on the analysis of specialized websites and of course, as you said, in my own opinion, why not? Each one has to know their needs and preferences.

I love installing multiple versions locally Opensource several scripts, among them, the scripts forum.

I suggest that you also do it regularly, install Apache, PHP and MySQL on your PC and test different versions of scripts.

We must never be content and think that something can not be changed for the better. Any unanimity is stupid.
SamG wrote:Opinions about what phpBB ought to be are pretty diverse. The gap between "lite" and "full-featured" forum solutions is getting narrower, but there is still a general sense out here that one admin's "must-have" feature is another admin's "bloat." We have that even within the phpBB community, where some see the so-called traditional phpBB approach, the lean-and-extensible approach, as being compromised by phpBB 3--making phpBB 3 a step backward, not forward.

So it does seem to boil down to opinion about what a proper BB solution in general looks like, and about what a proper phpBB release looks like more specifically, all of which is more like shifting sand than something solid. And Robert is right that open source software doesn't always compare well with software actually meant to draw in the paying crowds, it seems to me.

I personally like the idea that a true variety of solutions exists. I've not been real happy, generally, with "one-size-fits-all" solutions and "out-of-the-box" solutions. Once committed, a certain amount of flexibility and control is lost. Some of the full-blown CMS solutions are not very lite or friendly in my eyes--and one reason why people use WordPress as a CMS, I think.

Different solutions offer different strengths, and end users benefit from the choice, I think. phpBB is just one solid player among several, and it fits nicely into its own space, not the space defined by other products. I don't see how that's a bad thing.
Please friends, do not want to get me bad.

I'm not criticizing the "phpBB" without any foundation. I am not attacking him or harm him.

I know that the "phpBB" is perfect with its many Mods ... but I think it would be much better if the developers include the Mods commonly used in the official version.

As I said, nothing is so good that it can not be improved.

I love the "phpBB", so that the script use as a forum ... and for now at least, think of change, however, confess that the other scripts are so many resources as the "phpBB" or even more.

Oh yes, I'm remembering that compared to other free scripts such as SMF and MyBB compare it with the wonderful vBulletin would be unfair, since that charge a premium for the benefits offered.
greggish wrote:I think microblogging will become the preferred platform for online discussion soon. I think many will choose to run something like Status.net over traditional forum software.
About this, I do not think so.
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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by Paul »

umarizal wrote:
AdamR wrote:phpBB does not strive to "compete" per se with other bulletin board software, but rather meet the needs of phpBB's user base and community. If the developers feel users have a need for a certain feature to be included in the software, it will be added in a future release. One area where the developers get these ideas is from the MODding community.

As always, discussion is welcome about how said features will benefit the community. :)

To note however, I assume when you say "SEO" you are referring to friendly URLs. While these URLs do, indeed, make it easier for humans to distinguish the page they are on or are going to browse to (and I personally would like to see this in a future release of phpBB), from a modern search engine's perspective, the actual content of the page takes a much higher priority in search results, regardless of the URL.

- Adam
Thank you for your reply.

Well, when I quote other systems free forum, just to compare what others have and I think nobody should have. When he said that he is getting back, just quoted a phrase common way sites that evaluate scripts forum on the internet.

When I mentioned the SEO, I referred not only to friendly urls.

I referred also to other techniques that are not currently employed in phpBB and that make a site more visible in search results at Google, Yahoo and others.
phpBB is indexed very well. take a look here: http://www.google.nl/search?q=site%3Aph ... =firefox-a your post is already in googles search. Within 15 minutes.
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umarizal
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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by umarizal »

Yes Paul, you're right ...
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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by Dog Cow »

Paul wrote: phpBB is indexed very well. take a look here: http://www.google.nl/search?q=site%3Aph ... =firefox-a your post is already in googles search. Within 15 minutes.
Not everyone's phpBB site gets indexed that fast. phpBB.com is actually rather unique when compared with the millions of other phpBB boards.
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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by Marshalrusty »

Dog Cow wrote:
Paul wrote: phpBB is indexed very well. take a look here: http://www.google.nl/search?q=site%3Aph ... =firefox-a your post is already in googles search. Within 15 minutes.
Not everyone's phpBB site gets indexed that fast. phpBB.com is actually rather unique when compared with the millions of other phpBB boards.
How quickly a site is indexed has nothing to do with the point at hand, and Paul is not claiming that all posts made on every phpBB site are being indexed within 15 minutes.

This does, however, demonstrate that Google has no trouble indexing posts in phpBB. Unless a special algorithm is being used for phpBB.com (it isn't), then it is safe to assume that Google will have no trouble indexing a phpBB board. SEO is vastly over-exaggerated, in large part because there is a heavy market for it.
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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by AdamR »

Marshalrusty wrote:This does, however, demonstrate that Google has no trouble indexing posts in phpBB. Unless a special algorithm is being used for phpBB.com (it isn't), then it is safe to assume that Google will have no trouble indexing a phpBB board. SEO is vastly over-exaggerated, in large part because there is a heavy market for it.
One could argue that SEO isn't exaggerated, but rather outdated. There was a point in time when friendly URLs or meta keywords could make or break whether or not you achieved placement in search results. Those times have passed from my experiences. Google, Bing, Yahoo have all adopted a different model of content and context driven search rather than keyword driven search. Newly emerging real-time search is also becoming popular, giving higher priority to Twitter/Facebook feeds since it's recent.

I would certainly agree that there are areas where phpBB can be improved to cater to search engines. But there isn't a definitive, end all-be all solution like there used to be. SEO is outdated.

But this is digressing from the topic at hand. If someone would like to discuss how features that other boards have could benefit phpBB's user base and community, then I'm all for it. I'd rather stay away from "MyBB/vBulletin/Phopbamb has X and Y feature, so phpBB should too." :P

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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by Kellanved »

phpBB has a long development history and in the end, it's comparing apples with oranges. Every user should pick the solution most in-line with his/her needs. The distinctive factor might be the feature set, performance, or the security record, maybe even the size and activity of the community.
You'll find that phpBB's feature set compares quite well with the competition, as does the performance. In terms of community and security, I am not aware of any major product that comes even close.

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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by Pony99CA »

AdamR wrote:phpBB does not strive to "compete" per se with other bulletin board software, but rather meet the needs of phpBB's user base and community.
That's a pretty incestuous relationship. I think the OP is saying that lack of new features is preventing phpBB from reaching more new users (whether that's true or not is another matter).

While MODs are wonderful, I have to wonder how many users of phpBB try to run with very few MODs. The only MODs I use are for branding (in overall_header.html and overall_footer.html) and (previously) the registration agreement. Users like me would prefer one of two things -- new features added to the base code or a more modular system for installing changes (plug-ins, if you will, even though those won't be as flexible as current MODs).

That's one reason that I like phpBB 3.x so much -- it added lots of new features making it (more) competitive with systems like vBulletin.

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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by Darth Wong »

Pony99CA wrote:While MODs are wonderful, I have to wonder how many users of phpBB try to run with very few MODs. The only MODs I use are for branding (in overall_header.html and overall_footer.html) and (previously) the registration agreement. Users like me would prefer one of two things -- new features added to the base code or a more modular system for installing changes (plug-ins, if you will, even though those won't be as flexible as current MODs).
I try to keep my mod list pretty short as well, although it's not as spartan as yours. I have Evil Quick Reply installed (which I think looks better than the one built into 3.0.6), custom admin activation E-mails, a bunch of language and style changes, and a few hacks (like one which allows all users to use the "style=" GET override).

Luckily, I made a point of documenting exactly what I changed, which came in handy when 3.0.6 came out and contained so many code changes that it was easier to modify a 3.0.6 install than to upgrade my old install from 3.0.5 to 3.0.6.

I think your point about plug-ins is a good one though; if you can't have every feature you want built-in, then it would be nice to make it so it's easier to install and remove mods.
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Re: Discussion: phpBB is falling behind?

Post by Desdenova »

Pony99CA wrote:
AdamR wrote:phpBB does not strive to "compete" per se with other bulletin board software, but rather meet the needs of phpBB's user base and community.
That's a pretty incestuous relationship. I think the OP is saying that lack of new features is preventing phpBB from reaching more new users (whether that's true or not is another matter).

While MODs are wonderful, I have to wonder how many users of phpBB try to run with very few MODs. The only MODs I use are for branding (in overall_header.html and overall_footer.html) and (previously) the registration agreement. Users like me would prefer one of two things -- new features added to the base code or a more modular system for installing changes (plug-ins, if you will, even though those won't be as flexible as current MODs).

That's one reason that I like phpBB 3.x so much -- it added lots of new features making it (more) competitive with systems like vBulletin.

Steve
Agreed. I prefer not messing with the phpBB core itself -- there's too many unforeseen consequences. I prefer keeping everything as light as possible, and if I need to add something (like a system) I make it as independent of the forums as possible. I'll give it its own files, folder in includes, and all that, in order to keep edits down and simplify things.

What I myself would like to see is a plug-and-play design for MODs. I have it working myself with a few specialized extensions to phpBB that have not been released (the system has its own modules that it would load), but it isn't easy to get something of that sort setup for a project the scale of phpBB.

By the way, anybody notice the phpBB4 entries in the phpBB Wiki? I like what I see. :)
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