Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

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Phil
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by Phil »

Keep in mind JIRA was also selected due to its integration into several other Atlassian tools -- to my knowledge Assembla does not provide complete implementations of these (Crowd, Bamboo, Fisheye, Crucible, etc.)
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by narqelion »

Anybody have a clue how to list what issues you have selected to *watch*? There used to be a link in the left side menu after logging in but that whole thing is gone now and I cannot find any option in the UI to show me what bugs I am watching. Was that functionality completely removed this week when the interface changed?
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by Desdenova »

iWisdom wrote:Keep in mind JIRA was also selected due to its integration into several other Atlassian tools -- to my knowledge Assembla does not provide complete implementations of these (Crowd, Bamboo, Fisheye, Crucible, etc.)
Waaaiiiit a minute.

You mean to say that you all are considering adding more tools that are made by the same developers that has produced this tracker that is receiving numerous complaints about it being extremely slow, having terrible user interface, and being confusing as hell?


I hope the all of phpBB team members involved in this realize that it is extremely easy for the community to not contribute.
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by Phil »

Desdenova wrote:You mean to say that you all are considering adding more tools that are made by the same developers that has produced this tracker that is receiving numerous complaints about it being extremely slow, having terrible user interface, and being confusing as hell?
Additional tools are being looked at, yes. It should also probably be considered that the tracker as it is is in the process of being reconfigured to be considerably faster (as a matter of fact it is substantially faster for me at the time of this writing than it was as recently as a few days ago). Moreover, one should consider that some of these tools (Crowd, for instance) are already in use.

As for the interface, suitable alternatives that were considered (e.g. Bugzilla) lacked in this regard even more -- it is really a case of "change takes getting used to" as well as "you can't please everyone". Unfortunately bugtracking software is not known for its innovation in usability.
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by Highway of Life »

iWisdom wrote:Unfortunately bugtracking software is not known for its innovation in usability.
*Cough* Assembla *cough* *cough*... there are others as well, of course. But Assembla really has all of the tools that developers need. Sure they don’t have Atlassian crowd, however... you very likely could integrate it with Assembla if you needed it that badly. Andy opened up development of Assembla so that outside developers could add features to the product.
Comparing it to BugZilla, well yes... JIRA is a better product. But there are better products than JIRA...

The point here is ... why such a clunky system? Being slow as just the grease in the junk pile, the biggest issue here is the clunky interface and poor usability of the system, that coupled with the slow speed I think will decrease the involvement of a lot of users, whereas I think using a really good system would not just keep the contributions the same, but the idea is that they would increase. That you would get far more activity in the tracker, I figured that would be the primary goal... more users, more activity, easy interface.
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by Desdenova »

Would it be a bad time to bring this up, as well?

http://confluence.atlassian.com/display ... 2010-04-16

Guys, please...change course away from this and find something else. Something that works.

Yes, the old tracker wasn't what the dev team wanted, but it also took into account the what the individual users wanted as well.
It was something called a compromise.

Disregarding what the users want in favor of what the developers want is fine and dandy on something that users can't access. On things they can, it is downright irresponsible and disrespectful of your very own users to consider ignoring them!

It saddens me to see this very stance being taken with phpBB. I really hope it changes, and soon.
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut »

Desdenova wrote:Would it be a bad time to bring this up, as well?

http://confluence.atlassian.com/display ... 2010-04-16
JIRA last had a security advisory (of any sort) in February of last year, and the first in the JIRA 4 line. It is reasonable for any software to have a critical security problem once in a great while. I should add that we've already patched the issue.

Desdenova wrote:Disregarding what the users want in favor of what the developers want is fine and dandy on something that users can't access. On things they can, it is downright irresponsible and disrespectful of your very own users to consider ignoring them!
The whole purpose of switching to another tracking software was to facilitate better communication between the development team and the community at large. If it turns out that this is not the right solution, I think we're open (although hoping that it won't be necessary) to switching again.

For me, the most significant issue is the slow loading of the pages and the navigation itself. There are some places where the interface is unnecessarily clunky.

We are trying various solutions for the speed (with thanks both to Atlassian support and nn-'s suggestions), but the interface is mostly fixed.

Regarding using a hosted solution: the primary reservation is indeed the "data trapping". Whether or not someone like Assembla traps data, I don't know - I've never used it, and their feature list on their web site does not list backup availability as something they include.

We did evaluate a number of other tracking solutions closely (most notably: redmine, bugzilla, and arbit). As someone noted earlier, bugzilla has a very bad user interface. Redmine is slow and does not integrate easily with phpBB, and arbit is alpha-level software.

I'll say it again, just to be sure: there is a certain level of commitment to JIRA. We would like to try and line out its issues. If that turns out not to be satisfactory to us (we notice the problems too :)) and the community, other options will go back on the table.
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by Highway of Life »

Thanks Josh. :)

I pondered it a bit further, and wondered if perhaps it’s just me and a few others, if maybe users are not letting JIRA slow them down from reporting tickets or making replies. Does it really affect their ability to post issues or replies? Is it true that the activity has stayed the same on JIRA? - which would appear to indicate that there is really no issue with using it.

As a product full of features, I love JIRA, it can integrate with applications, tools, IDEs, and is designed to improve the workflow of a team of developers. For a company, this sounds awesome. But what had me worried was the usability. Users who open tickets for phpBB are not all a bunch of techies and developers like us. But does this tool bother them?

I decided to take a look...
JIRA has some nice reporting tools that allows you to view in good detail when people opened tickets, who and how many. I decided to pull up usage reports from the last 15 weeks, grouped by created tickets per week, and then counted the types of people who created the tickets and put them into two groups: Users and Team members, to find out how many tickets were reported and by whom. It should be noted that I grouped the Jr. Devs with the Users, but technically, they should have been with Team Members.

iWisdom informed me that the Migration was done to JIRA around March 26th, and that as of my report, there was 46 new tickets since the migration to JIRA. - The last two weeks (Week 15 and 16) are on JIRA, and part of week 14. The total tickets for all three weeks equals 55, so 9 tickets in week 14 were from the phpBB.com tracker.

Here are the graphs from the results:
Image
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Image
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Averages:
Before JIRA, there were an average of 16.08 tickets created per week, 2.25 (14%) by team members, and 13.83 (86%) by users.
After the migration to JIRA (including Week 14 and some of the phpBB.com tickets), there were an average of 18.33 tickets created per week, team member created tickets jumped to 12 (65.5%) and user tickets dropped to an average of 6.33 (34.5%).

Granted, we haven’t been on JIRA that long, so there isn’t a whole lot of data to go on...
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by DavidIQ »

Highway of Life wrote:Averages:
Before JIRA, there were an average of 16.08 tickets created per week, 2.25 (14%) by team members, and 13.83 (86%) by users.
After the migration to JIRA (including Week 14 and some of the phpBB.com tickets), there were an average of 18.33 tickets created per week, team member created tickets jumped to 12 (65.5%) and user tickets dropped to an average of 6.33 (34.5%).

Granted, we haven’t been on JIRA that long, so there isn’t a whole lot of data to go on...
I think the reason team member created tickets have increased (mostly from the Dev Team) is so that users have a feel of how JIRA can and will be be used and what the new "process" is for tickets. This will be continuous though but hopefully the users can catch on.
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by nickvergessen »

narqelion wrote:Anybody have a clue how to list what issues you have selected to *watch*? There used to be a link in the left side menu after logging in but that whole thing is gone now and I cannot find any option in the UI to show me what bugs I am watching. Was that functionality completely removed this week when the interface changed?
Just add a filter yourself, searching for:

Code: Select all

watcher = currentUser()
you can do that on http://tracker.phpbb.com/secure/IssueNa ... teNew=true

HoL: thanks for the grafics. I kind of like them, but not what they display lol
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by narqelion »

Thanks but I eventually discovered that there is a GUI for that (which was there at some point and then vanished) and that if I created a new dashboard I could add my own "gadget" of which there were several to choose from. The one I was looking for is called 'Quick Links" and to be honest it should be in the default user profile view once a user logs in. FYI...the JIRA query language string the system used (once I found the link Watches: View all issues you are watching) was key in watchedIssues().
All in all it was a ridiculous amount of time spent on trying see my watched issues so that I could un-watch them. Thanks anyway though. ;-)
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by Acyd Burn »

nickvergessen wrote:
narqelion wrote:Anybody have a clue how to list what issues you have selected to *watch*? There used to be a link in the left side menu after logging in but that whole thing is gone now and I cannot find any option in the UI to show me what bugs I am watching. Was that functionality completely removed this week when the interface changed?
Just add a filter yourself, searching for:

Code: Select all

watcher = currentUser()
you can do that on http://tracker.phpbb.com/secure/IssueNa ... teNew=true

HoL: thanks for the grafics. I kind of like them, but not what they display lol
It is actually a lot easier... just click your name and go to your Profile. Then, on the right you see the Filters, there are some options you can choose from. Watched tickets, watched and open tickets, voted tickets, reported, etc. - all then redirect to the correct filter page where you see the results. If you want you can adjust the filter to your liking (sorting for example or columns) and then save it. Once saved you see it in your dashboard under filters.
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by bantu »

Highway of Life wrote:Averages:
Before JIRA, there were an average of 16.08 tickets created per week, 2.25 (14%) by team members, and 13.83 (86%) by users.
After the migration to JIRA (including Week 14 and some of the phpBB.com tickets), there were an average of 18.33 tickets created per week, team member created tickets jumped to 12 (65.5%) and user tickets dropped to an average of 6.33 (34.5%).
We're evaluating our options to manage the changelog in the tracker, rather than in the repository (to reduce conflicts when merging external branches). Therefore, really everything has to be documented in the tracker. We also created subtasks for several tickets, which probably also count as a ticket on their own. And there is off course also the "testing the new toy".
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by narqelion »

Acyd Burn wrote:It is actually a lot easier... just click your name and go to your Profile. Then, on the right you see the Filters, there are some options you can choose from.
Unfortunately it's not very intuitive that those options are even there. It's also comforting to know that I am not the only one appalled by the interface, their pre-existing customers are very unhappy with the UI redesign whiplash that came with the latest version. I spent a good hour poking around their support forum yesterday for anything to help me with the watched issue and found this topic:
http://forums.atlassian.com/thread.jspa?threadID=43007
Might be worth trying to at least get back to the same UI you started with at the end of March, it was exponentially better than what is there now.
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Re: Discuss: Introducing JIRA – the new bug tracker

Post by Oleg »

no-store and I think pragma no-cache were gone for a few days, and now they're back. What's the story with them?
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