[SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

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ToonArmy
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by ToonArmy »

Desdenova wrote:
Marshalrusty wrote:While the article's content is valid (for maximum safety, using sudo is better than logging in as root), it is not at all the same thing being brought up here.
Bzzzt, wrong. :roll:

The similarities between both are quite obvious (and also, you shouldn't be presenting your opinion as die-hard fact).
There are similarities, sudo can produce a root shell just as su does for example. However root shells are a bad idea, forget to lock it and you're stuffed. If I forget to lock my shell after using sudo the attacker only has a 15 minute window (by default) to make an attack.

As to password policy authenticating with ones own password or using a shared password that's up to you.
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Marshalrusty »

Desdenova wrote:
Marshalrusty wrote:While the article's content is valid (for maximum safety, using sudo is better than logging in as root), it is not at all the same thing being brought up here.
Bzzzt, wrong. :roll:

The similarities between both are quite obvious (and also, you shouldn't be presenting your opinion as die-hard fact).
"Bzzzt"? Seriously? :shock:

Quoting just that one line of what I said makes it seem like I didn't back up my opinion. The least you could do is at least read my post and understand what I said before pretending like it's so much beneath you. I'm also not sure where I made it sound like anything I said was "die-hard fact" anymore than you did. Nowhere did I deny there being any "similarities"; there are similarities between phpBB and SMF, but that doesn't mean every concept applied to one can be applied to the other.

In this case, you're comparing permissions on an OS with permission on a bulletin board program. The original poster specifically stated that the purpose for multiple passwords was protection from one being stolen, which is not the purpose of sudo. You then attempted to apply the actual purpose of sudo to phpBB, which also doesn't really work because phpBB is a bulletin board system. It could be made to work, but there's no problem with running operations as an administrator in phpBB. That is, unless you've found CSRF vulnerabilities somewhere (in which case the problem is the vulnerability).

nn- and I explained that since we are supposing the first password was stolen, the second password would be stolen in the same way.
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Highway of Life »

MNA wrote:Yes, I have something like this.

But I am in good situation, because I've got access to server's shell, not everyone has that possibility, so let's help them.
Even shared hosts can set a password on a directory without shell/root access.
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by MichaelC »

If you want a second password you could use .htaccess like I do for the /adm and /mcp files.
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Rhet-or-Ric »

.
I was just thinking about ten or so minutes ago about the idea of having a second password for the ACP and through the search tool found this topic. The second password idea just popped into my head, for some reason.

Anyway, I have read all the posts in this thread and it certainly seems that most don't approve. Or don't think it's necessary. Or other opinions.

But I wonder if it is actually possible with some kind of a hack?

Yes, I read about .htaccess/.htpasswd which I feel uncomfortable with.

So setting aside all the opinions, I am wondering if it really would be so difficult to set up?

In other words, is it at all possible without using .htaccess/.htpasswd?

Thank you.

.
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Erik Frèrejean »

Marshalrusty wrote:
t_backoff wrote:May I inquire as to why you dont like usnig them? Also, can you provide a few of those sites? I'd like to read their FAQ or some other document that states why they prefer you don't.
American Express's website limits you to 8 alphanumeric characters. I've asked them before what they could possibly be thinking, but received no response.
My bank account uses a 6 digit password. I still can't think of a good reason to have that as limit especially for something like a bank account :/
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Marshalrusty »

Rhet-or-Ric wrote:.
I was just thinking about ten or so minutes ago about the idea of having a second password for the ACP and through the search tool found this topic. The second password idea just popped into my head, for some reason.

Anyway, I have read all the posts in this thread and it certainly seems that most don't approve. Or don't think it's necessary. Or other opinions.

But I wonder if it is actually possible with some kind of a hack?

Yes, I read about .htaccess/.htpasswd which I feel uncomfortable with.

So setting aside all the opinions, I am wondering if it really would be so difficult to set up?

In other words, is it at all possible without using .htaccess/.htpasswd?

Thank you.

.
So I'll raise the same questions again...

What are you trying to protect against?
and
In your scenario, would having 3 or more passwords be better than having 2?
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Rhet-or-Ric »

.

Now that's basically what I thought I was reading in many of the previous answers -- asking why someone would wish to have two passwords as asked in the OP.

I'm very sorry, but what difference does it make? Why must someone answer that question? In fact, what business is it of anyone's?

I am simply asking if it is possible. That's all. No complicated discussion. Maybe I have reasons that I don't care to share with anyone in public.

Good golly, what makes this such a delicate question?

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Rhet-or-Ric »

.
Marshalrusty wrote: and
In your scenario, would having 3 or more passwords be better than having 2?
And, what scenario are you referring to? I don't understand that question? Sorry.

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Marshalrusty »

Rhet-or-Ric wrote:I'm very sorry, but what difference does it make? Why must someone answer that question? In fact, what business is it of anyone's?
This is the Discussion Forum, not the MOD Request Forum. Therefore, we are discussing the idea and seeing whether or not it has merit for security applications. As mentioned above, a number of us do not see any added security with this, so I was asking whether you had perhaps thought of something we didn't see.
Rhet-or-Ric wrote:I am simply asking if it is possible. That's all. No complicated discussion. Maybe I have reasons that I don't care to share with anyone in public.
Of course it's possible. What could possibly prevent it from being possible? I'm sure you know that phpBB is opensource, so you can add absolutely anything, including a second or third password.
Rhet-or-Ric wrote:Good golly, what makes this such a delicate question?
It's not. This is the Discussion Forum and it's perfectly natural that we are going to attempt to understand the merits of any suggestion before providing recommendations, especially if it's security related.
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Rhet-or-Ric »

.

Fair enough, thank you for the answer.

I'm afraid, though, I don't think it would be wise for me to explain for what purpose I see it to be a useful tool. I hope you can understand that there are some things that simply should not be discussed in public, especially when it has to do with security.

I will state, though, it has nothing to do with the strength of any particular password. Nor is it directly related to the possibility of the main board sign-in password being discovered by a nefarious individual.

Again, thank you for the answer.

.
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by stevemaury »

One obvious solution is to only use your admin account when you need to access the ACP. Use another for ordinary discussion. And make the admin account hidden online and make the Registered users group its default group.
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by Pony99CA »

Rhet-or-Ric wrote:I hope you can understand that there are some things that simply should not be discussed in public, especially when it has to do with security.
Why would talking about reasons be damaging to security? Talking about implementations may be, although "security by obscurity" is not much security anyway.

Anyway, to give you one possible implementation, add a second password field to the User table. Initially default that second password to the first one. Add that second password to the ACP user page where an admin can change it if he wants (there's really no need to add it to the UCP). Change the ACP log in to use the second password, not the first.

There may be other details that I omitted, but you get the gist, I hope.

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Different password/PIN to ACP

Post by updown »

A second password doesn't make anything more secure. The only argument for it would be, that it is not used as often as the standard-password and makes it possibly more secure for catching by unencrypted transmission. But practically, that doesn't help to make something more secure in anyway.

A more secure way would be to make use of classic (banking-style) one-use PINs: Generate a list of them (best offline), update the database with the encrypted PINS in a separate table, ask for an additional PIN-ID at every LOG-In, only use each PIN once. THAT would be a Modification for more security, since it combines online- and offline-verification-methods.
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