Save shouldn't have an interstital

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Wolf Harper
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Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by Wolf Harper »

So, you are editing a message, you want to continue it later so you hit "save".

This is not enough. phpBB3 has a crucial question. "We can only save the text you spent the last half hour composing. Your posting does not have any pictures, that is true. Nonetheless, in the hypothetical instance that your post DID have pictures, those wouldn't be saved and you'd have to upload them again when you start editing again. Telling you this is so important we're going to NOT save your text-only message until we get positive word from you that you still want to save anyway. Hello? Hello? Well I hope you get back before your login expires."

So yeah... get rid of the interstitial. Just save. Mention it either in the mouseover text on the save button, or on the "Ok, saved your text" screen.

[edited to better reflect the problem]
Last edited by Wolf Harper on Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by stevemaury »

Place the picture inline.
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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by Wolf Harper »

There is no picture. I'm hitting "save" on a simple text reply, just like this one. Here, let me hit "save" right now.
The phpBB software wrote:Please note that saved drafts only include the subject and the message, any other element will be removed. Do you want to save your draft now?
Why????? Why can't it just save your draft, and THEN mention that pictures and other "elements" (whatever those are) were not saved too?

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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by JimA »

Wolf Harper wrote:Why????? Why can't it just save your draft, and THEN mention that pictures and other "elements" (whatever those are) were not saved too?
How would you feel when you got notified that the pictures you've spend the last 10 minutes uploading were removed from the post after that has happened. When we tell one beforehand, he can take precautions to make sure that the pictures will still be there by (like Steve said) putting them inline. :)
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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by Pony99CA »

JimA wrote:
Wolf Harper wrote:Why????? Why can't it just save your draft, and THEN mention that pictures and other "elements" (whatever those are) were not saved too?
How would you feel when you got notified that the pictures you've spend the last 10 minutes uploading were removed from the post after that has happened. When we tell one beforehand, he can take precautions to make sure that the pictures will still be there by (like Steve said) putting them inline. :)
That would obviously be bad. However, is it only attachments that are lost? If so, why can't that message only be displayed if the post being saved has attachments?

And that begs another question. Why are attachments lost at all? Is it just to prevent wasting disk space for posts that may never be made?

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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut »

Attachments, polls, any special options that might have been set (like "hide my signature for this post") are lost when saving a draft.
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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by igorw »

The drafts system is very lightweight, it only stores subject and message body. Adding attachments support would be nice but is not exactly trivial. Only asking the user in case options were changed would be possible, and I'd suggest creating a ticket for that. Or even submitting a patch, if you can do that.
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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by Pony99CA »

igorw wrote:The drafts system is very lightweight, it only stores subject and message body. Adding attachments support would be nice but is not exactly trivial. Only asking the user in case options were changed would be possible, and I'd suggest creating a ticket for that. Or even submitting a patch, if you can do that.
I don't really use Save, so I'll leave opening the ticket to the OP. Losing your attachments and polls is bad (options are easy to reset, though), so the message is necessary.

However, just riffing a bit, how about a "simple" solution to saving that wouldn't lose anything? What if Save posted in the forum with a "hidden" attribute, so nobody could see it? When they went to finish the post and hit Submit, it would just change the time stamp and post with "visible" attribute.

You might need to add a new column for the hidden/visible attributes, but that could have other uses, too. For example, if a user deleted their post, that could just change the post to a "deleted" attribute (which wouldn't be visible); if the user wanted to restore the post, there could be a UCP page to do that.

Similarly, if a moderator deleted a post, it could get a "mod-deleted" attribute so that only moderators could restore the post.

I'm sure that it's a bit more complicated than that (and I didn't address performance at all), but that would allow Save to handle everything without too much extra work. Plus, I think I've seen other users request a similar type of function in the past.

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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by 3Di »

Pony99CA wrote:
igorw wrote:The drafts system is very lightweight, it only stores subject and message body. Adding attachments support would be nice but is not exactly trivial. Only asking the user in case options were changed would be possible, and I'd suggest creating a ticket for that. Or even submitting a patch, if you can do that.
I don't really use Save, so I'll leave opening the ticket to the OP. Losing your attachments and polls is bad (options are easy to reset, though), so the message is necessary.

However, just riffing a bit, how about a "simple" solution to saving that wouldn't lose anything? What if Save posted in the forum with a "hidden" attribute, so nobody could see it? When they went to finish the post and hit Submit, it would just change the time stamp and post with "visible" attribute.

You might need to add a new column for the hidden/visible attributes, but that could have other uses, too. For example, if a user deleted their post, that could just change the post to a "deleted" attribute (which wouldn't be visible); if the user wanted to restore the post, there could be a UCP page to do that.

Similarly, if a moderator deleted a post, it could get a "mod-deleted" attribute so that only moderators could restore the post.

I'm sure that it's a bit more complicated than that (and I didn't address performance at all), but that would allow Save to handle everything without too much extra work. Plus, I think I've seen other users request a similar type of function in the past.

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something on the like of this? http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 84&t=32712
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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by tbackoff »

That's different. Right now, deletes are "hard deleted". Soft Delete will change this so that posts can be soft deleted first. Pony99CA is talking about saving posts.
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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by 3Di »

t_backoff wrote:That's different. Right now, deletes are "hard deleted". Soft Delete will change this so that posts can be soft deleted first. Pony99CA is talking about saving posts.
I know, I was talking about the RFC (approved) I above linked.. if you read it, speaks about hard and soft stuffs, that's why I asked: 'on the like of it' .. meaning.. something similar to that?
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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by Pony99CA »

t_backoff wrote:That's different. Right now, deletes are "hard deleted". Soft Delete will change this so that posts can be soft deleted first. Pony99CA is talking about saving posts.
Correct, but it's possible the two functions are similar enough that both could be implemented for slightly more than the cost of implementing just one.

I'll link the Area 51 topic back to this.

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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by Wolf Harper »

Pony99CA wrote:I don't really use Save, so I'll leave opening the ticket to the OP. Losing your attachments and polls is bad (options are easy to reset, though), so the message is necessary.
OP here. I think that in the universe of phpBB, only a few postings have attachments or polls. Of those, virtually none of them get saved as drafts. I think saves tend to be done on thoughtful text replies, on which time has been committed, a more valuable post than average - worth saving. Likely, they are interrupted, and cannot continue to give phpBB their attention, so at risk to miss the interstitial. While that may be frustrating to the designer, it is a reality of the human factor.

It would be interesting to see statistics on that: how often are saves attempted with attachments. How often saves are abandoned at the interstitial (either because the lack of attachment-save deterred them, or they didn't have an attachment and were interrupted.

The maddening thing is, you get back from lunch, find it at the interstitial, and now you want to keep editing. Do you finish the save, or hit browser-back to continue editing? Of course... and of course guess what can happen :(

Just a few throw-out suggestions (aside from what 3Di and Pony99CA discussed)...
1. Suppress or bounce-through the interstitial if there is no attachment, options or poll.
2. #1, but do it all client-side, with Javascript or whatever.
3. #2, but instead, have it morph the "save draft" button, turning it red with a warning.
4. Add a "Quick Save*" with an asterisk farther down "does not save attachments, polls or options."
5. Or just #4 with the regular save:
an example of how to get rid of the annoying interstitial for saves
an example of how to get rid of the annoying interstitial for saves
phpbb-no-more-interstitial.jpg (36.3 KiB) Viewed 1692 times

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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by Pony99CA »

Wolf Harper wrote:The maddening thing is, you get back from lunch, find it at the interstitial, and now you want to keep editing. Do you finish the save, or hit browser-back to continue editing? Of course... and of course guess what can happen :(
Use a "ghetto save" -- copy your post into Notepad (and, if paranoid, save it on your PC in case the PC crashes). :D I've done that here at phpbb.com; sometimes the network connectivity seemed bad, and trying to post gave an error causing me to lose my content, so now if a post seems to be taking a while, I Ctrl+A & Ctrl+C to copy the post and Ctrl+V it into Notepad.
Wolf Harper wrote:Just a few throw-out suggestions (aside from what 3Di and Pony99CA discussed)...
1. Suppress or bounce-through the interstitial if there is no attachment, options or poll.
That's the correct solution (if we can't do any better with my "invisible posts" suggestion) and is exactly what I meant when I said "why can't that message only be displayed if the post being saved has attachments?"

Anyway, did you create a ticket as Igor suggested to get that implmented? If not, you should.

Steve

P.S. I do have to wonder how important this is to you. It only took 1.67 years to reply. :D
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Re: Save shouldn't have an interstital

Post by Wolf Harper »

LOL good point, I rediscovered the thread by chance while searching for something else, and thought, "hey, this point still needs love." It's not really *my* issue since I've come to distrust the phpBB save and rely on the "ghetto save" as you mention. Still, it doesn't reflect well on the product, eh? It's an "annoyance", in the parlance of that one book series.

I know that some users don't mind annoyances; they are happy navigating around them, the way a hillbilly is happy navigating around the broken washing machines and piles of old tires in his front yard. That's just not me. I prefer "impeccable". And why not?

I had tried entering a bug but it wouldn't let me log in. I did a password reset, all good now.

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