Permission Order

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Pony99CA
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Permission Order

Post by Pony99CA »

Does anybody else think that permissions seem ordered without any logic?

For example, here are the forum advanced permissions for posting:
Can post announcements
Can use topic/post icons
Can see forum
Can start new topics
Can read forum
Can reply to topics
Can post stickies
Wouldn't it make more sense to have them like this:
Can see forum
Can read forum
Can start new topics
Can reply to topics
Can post announcements
Can post stickies
Can use topic/post icons
To post, you must first be able to see the forum, then be able to read it. You first must have a topic, then be able to reply. Announcements, stickies and icons are modifiers and so should be last.

Or consider the content permissions:
Can attach files
Can use BBCode
Can download files
Can use [flash] BBCode tag
Can use [img] BBCode tag
Can use signatures
Can use smilies
Wouldn't the following make more sense:
Can attach files
Can download files
Can use BBCode
Can use [flash] BBCode tag
Can use [img] BBCode tag
Can use smilies
Can use signatures
You can't download unless a file is attached, all of the BBCode items are grouped together and signatures are the last thing on a post.

If there is some reason for the ordering and I'm missing it, please let me know.

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Re: Permission Order

Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut »

IIRC they are alphabetical by the permission's internal name.
f_announce
f_icons
f_list
f_post
f_read
f_reply
f_sticky
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Pony99CA
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Re: Permission Order

Post by Pony99CA »

A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote:IIRC they are alphabetical by the permission's internal name.
f_announce
f_icons
f_list
f_post
f_read
f_reply
f_sticky
OK, so there's some logic, but not visible to a user. Don't you think my reordering makes a bit more sense to users?

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Re: Permission Order

Post by callumacrae »

Area51 tiem

I agree that it would make more sense how you suggested

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Pony99CA
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Re: Permission Order

Post by Pony99CA »

Callum95 wrote:Area51 tiem

I agree that it would make more sense how you suggested
Thanks. If anything, I'd open it as a usability issue in the Bug Tracker. However, I'm hoping to get other suggestions first. There are more permission pages than the two that I listed.

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Re: Permission Order

Post by drathbun »

Can see forum
Can read forum
Can start new topics
Can reply to topics
Can post announcements
Can post stickies
Can use topic/post icons
Hm. How are they ordered in phpBB2? ;)

View Forum
Read Forum
Post New Topic
Post Reply
Edit
Delete
Sticky
Announce
Vote
Create Poll

Basically I am agreeing with the original post. The only adjustment I might consider is that posting replies could be a "lesser" permission than starting a new topic... basically swapping those two. You could say it requires "more power" to start a new topic in a forum than it does to participate in an existing topic. But meh, it works either way.
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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: Permission Order

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

I don't see why it makes any difference how they are "ordered".

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Re: Permission Order

Post by Pony99CA »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:I don't see why it makes any difference how they are "ordered".
Because the human mind likes ordering, and grouping related items together makes sense. Did you look at my examples? If so, didn't my proposed ordering make more sense than the current ordering? (You can argue about specific items in my list, as drathbun did, but consider the overall concept.)

Imagine you buy a socket wrench and a set of sockets. Which ordering makes more sense for the sockets:
  • Ordered by size, smallest on the left and increasing in order of size so that the largest is on the right.
  • Ordered by internal product number, with the lowest ID number on the left and the larget ID number on the right.
Or imagine you buy two theater seats, 11A and 11B. Would you expect to find those two seats next to each other or in different rows on opposite sides of the theater?

If anybody has to spend time thinking about those questions, they should never get a job designing interfaces.

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Re: Permission Order

Post by Sajaki »

@ pony : great idea ! :)
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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: Permission Order

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

I agree about ordering of things in most cases. I have certainly been accused of being rather OCD about things like that. However, permissions have no numerical order or any other logical order that I can see that makes any particlular sense. It seems to me that it would be a purely subjective thing as to what order they should be in and therefore any order is as good as another.

oh well,

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Re: Permission Order

Post by drathbun »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote: However, permissions have no numerical order or any other logical order that I can see that makes any particlular sense.
But there is a logical order. You have to be able to view something before you can read it, and you have to be able to read before you can post. It makes no sense to be able to reply to a topic that you can't read, right? ;)
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Brf
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Re: Permission Order

Post by Brf »

I dunno about that. I have seen alot of users who reply to topics without reading them ;)

I agree though that "See forum" and "Read forum" belong at the top of the list though. And Announcements and Stickies belong at the bottom.
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Re: Permission Order

Post by Pony99CA »

Brf wrote:I dunno about that. I have seen alot of users who reply to topics without reading them ;)
That gets my vote for comment of the day. :lol:

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Re: Permission Order

Post by Pony99CA »

drathbun wrote:
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote: However, permissions have no numerical order or any other logical order that I can see that makes any particlular sense.
But there is a logical order. You have to be able to view something before you can read it, and you have to be able to read before you can post. It makes no sense to be able to reply to a topic that you can't read, right? ;)
Exactly. Which, by the way, is why I put Can start new topics before Can reply to topics -- you can't reply to a topic that hasn't been started. ;)

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Brf
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Re: Permission Order

Post by Brf »

Pony99CA wrote: Exactly. Which, by the way, is why I put Can start new topics before Can reply to topics -- you can't reply to a topic that hasn't been started. ;)
Yes. But you can reply to a topic which another user has started. If have seen alot of forums where only the moderator can start new topics, but anyone can reply. In that case, "reply" is a lower permission than "start".
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