[Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.3

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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by BroIgnatius » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:27 pm

I am horrified to hear about this upgrade that requires Php 5.3.2

I cannot make that upgrade as I have many files in asp. My server in linux with chilisoft to run asp. This is not compatible with Apache 2, which has the 5.3.2, according to my server host.

It will be a massive task to migrant all asp files to html or php. That task may not be done for a year. I hope that using phpbb 3 will not be a major security risk in the meantime.

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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by Marshalrusty » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Well, phpBB3 has not been a "major security risk" since the day it was released, so I don't expect that to be a problem.

The requirement will likely be PHP 5.3.3, which was released more than 2 years ago. This is not a demanding requirement at all.

Having said that, I'm hoping that I am misunderstanding your problem. You cannot upgrade PHP because you have many files in ASP, which is not compatible with apache2 (which was originally released in 2000)? And your thoughts on this matter are that PHP 5.3.3 is the problem?
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by /a3 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:47 pm

BroIgnatius wrote:I cannot make that upgrade as I have many files in asp. My server in linux with chilisoft to run asp. This is not compatible with Apache 2, which has the 5.3.2, according to my server host.
If your host is running a PHP version less than 5.3 than it is out of date. The final PHP 5.2 version was released in 2010.

I haven't heard any announcements regarding phpBB 3.0 support, but I imagine support might continue for a while after 3.1 is released. (Can someone confirm this?) Even then, phpBB 3.1 is probably still a while off.
Marshalrusty wrote:Having said that, I'm hoping that I am misunderstanding your problem. You cannot upgrade PHP because you have many files in ASP, which is not compatible with apache2 (which was originally released in 2000)? And your thoughts on this matter are that PHP 5.3.3 is the problem?
I think BroIgnatius' host might be using PHP on IIS which is using a version below PHP 5.3, and he doesn't want to switch to Apache. Maybe I misunderstood his post as well though.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by Marshalrusty » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:51 pm

/a3 wrote:I haven't heard any announcements regarding phpBB 3.0 support, but I imagine support might continue for a while after 3.1 is released. (Can someone confirm this?) Even then, phpBB 3.1 is probably still a while off.
We'll announce exact timeframes a bit later, but there will definitely be a period of support for 3.0 after 3.1 is released (and 3.1 when 3.2 is released, and so on). As with phpBB2, we would rather have people upgrade at their own (reasonable) pace than force the matter.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by BroIgnatius » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:00 pm

/a3 wrote:If your host is running a PHP version less than 5.3 than it is out of date. The final PHP 5.2 version was released in 2010.
My host is running 5.3, but 5.3 is located on what they call Apache 2 upgrade. This upgrade is not compatible with chilisoft, thus I cannot take advantage to the php 5.3 until I get rid of all asp files, which will take a lot of time.

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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by Marshalrusty » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:19 pm

You, like many before you, have a legacy code problem. This does not, however, mean that it is acceptable to drag down everything else on the system to stay compatible with the old stuff, particularly if you're in the least bit concerned about security (which you even mentioned).

Until you're ready to fix it properly, create a separate environment (such as another VM) running chilisoft and whatever else you need, freeing up the main system to be brought into this decade.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by DionDesigns » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:43 pm

Marshalrusty wrote:Until you're ready to fix it properly, create a separate environment (such as another VM) running chilisoft and whatever else you need, freeing up the main system to be brought into this decade.
Such customer-friendly support. :P

What are you going to tell those who have hosting from your favored-host Bluehost? Hosting from them defaults to PHP 5.2.17, and they strongly encourage people to keep it because it allows them to use their FastCGI "legacy code".

FYI, they are not alone. I offer a service to help people move their forumotion boards to paid hosting, and I have dealt with a fairly large number of hosting companies in the process. Only one has offered PHP 5.3.3+ as a default, and all the others recommend older versions because they run faster. Now, you and I both know the main reason is because older versions use fewer resources, but...older versions do run faster.

I wonder how many people will drop phpBB3.1 because this requirement causes other programs on their site to run more slowly. I also wonder if hosting companies will start tacking on monthly surcharges to use PHP 5.3+ -- with the result being that people will not even install phpBB3.1 due to the surcharge.

What I'm getting at is...you might want to consider opening a dialog with a few hosting companies before you go much further.

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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by callumacrae » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:47 pm

DionDesigns wrote:What are you going to tell those who have hosting from your favored-host Bluehost? Hosting from them defaults to PHP 5.2.17, and they strongly encourage people to keep it because it allows them to use their FastCGI "legacy code".
It's easy enough to update it (like, two buttons).
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by Marshalrusty » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:10 am

DionDesigns wrote:
Marshalrusty wrote:Until you're ready to fix it properly, create a separate environment (such as another VM) running chilisoft and whatever else you need, freeing up the main system to be brought into this decade.
Such customer-friendly support. :P
That wasn't support, it was general advice on running legacy code. Regardless of what is happening with phpBB, BroIgnatius is undoubtedly running vulnerable software in a live environment.
DionDesigns wrote:What are you going to tell those who have hosting from your favored-host Bluehost? Hosting from them defaults to PHP 5.2.17, and they strongly encourage people to keep it because it allows them to use their FastCGI "legacy code".
Here's a screenshot of the Bluehost PHP config panel:
Bluehost-php-config.png
Bluehost-php-config.png (18.18 KiB) Viewed 2071 times
DionDesigns wrote:FYI, they are not alone. I offer a service to help people move their forumotion boards to paid hosting, and I have dealt with a fairly large number of hosting companies in the process. Only one has offered PHP 5.3.3+ as a default, and all the others recommend older versions because they run faster. Now, you and I both know the main reason is because older versions use fewer resources, but...older versions do run faster.

I wonder how many people will drop phpBB3.1 because this requirement causes other programs on their site to run more slowly.<snip>
I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this information from, but it is incorrect. PHP 5.3 is absolutely not heavier than PHP 5.2. PHP 5.4 is also significantly better than 5.3.
DionDesigns wrote:I also wonder if hosting companies will start tacking on monthly surcharges to use PHP 5.3+ -- with the result being that people will not even install phpBB3.1 due to the surcharge.
Seriously? I'm going to assume you're not being serious with this prediction.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by DionDesigns » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:49 am

Marshalrusty wrote:I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this information from, but it is incorrect. PHP 5.3 is absolutely not heavier than PHP 5.2.
PHP 5.2.17 with FastCGI was the default on the three Bluehost installations I've encountered. Using FastCGI will save resources, and overall, it does serve pages faster.
____________________________

Amazing...I knew exactly how staff would respond -- try to pick apart details and miss the main point. (Actually the Bluehost screenshot confirmed what I wrote, but I digress.) To repeat:
DionDesigns wrote:What I'm getting at is...you might want to consider opening a dialog with a few hosting companies before you go much further.
I do wish you would consider using the time spent nitpicking to instead talk to some people at hosting companies. You NEED their support, and you're assuming they will do so. Well, you know what people say about those who assume. ;)

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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by /a3 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:20 am

DionDesigns wrote:PHP 5.2.17 with FastCGI was the default on the three Bluehost installations I've encountered. Using FastCGI will save resources, and overall, it does serve pages faster.
FastCGI being faster doesn't mean PHP 5.2 being faster.

Regarding benchmarks, apparently PHP 5.3 is faster than 5.2:
https://duckduckgo.com/lite?q=is+php+5. ... an+php+5.2
http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.g ... ations.php

Also, regarding PHP 5.3:
  • Drupal 8 will require PHP >= 5.3.5
  • Joomla 3.x requires PHP >= 5.3.1
  • Symfony2 requires PHP >= 5.3.3
  • The latest version of MediaWiki requires PHP >= 5.3.2
Considering phpBB 3.1 will probably be released in 2013 sometime (I'm guessing) and considering phpBB 3.0 will receive some support after that, I don't think mandating PHP 5.3 for phpBB 3.1 is unreasonable.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by Marshalrusty » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:23 am

I'm sorry if you feel that I'm "nitpicking", but I was responding to the central point of your post, on which your conclusion was presumably based.

phpBB 3.1 is not being released right now, and the purpose of the announcement that led to this topic is precisely what you're asking for: to notify everyone of our intent. Hosting companies certainly monitor websites of popular scripts, and phpBB is pretty huge in that regard. An announcement here is far more effective than sending around some emails to select hosting companies, many of whom subscribe to the announcements forum or our twitter feed.

Bluehost and many other hosting companies do a decent enough job of keeping their software updated. These companies will be ready for the release of phpBB 3.1. Some companies don't do a decent job of updating their software, and you shouldn't use those.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by BroIgnatius » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:52 am

Marshalrusty wrote:You, like many before you, have a legacy code problem. This does not, however, mean that it is acceptable to drag down everything else on the system to stay compatible with the old stuff, particularly if you're in the least bit concerned about security (which you even mentioned).

Until you're ready to fix it properly, create a separate environment (such as another VM) running chilisoft and whatever else you need, freeing up the main system to be brought into this decade.
LOL, it will take six months to a year to migrate all the asp files, and asp driven features, to html/php. Actually, given my poor health and the fact that my to do list is at least as high as the Empire State building, it may take more than a year. Thus, my horror in reading about this upgrade of phpbb.

But, there is nothing I can do about it. Running an other environment is not possible. The server account is either in Apache 2 (which is incompatible) or it is in Apache 1 (which is compatible). Thus, it must remain in the Apache 1 mode until someday I can get all the asp stuff off the site. Apache 2 is completely current, but it just will not run asp.

Ah, well.

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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by /a3 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:29 am

BroIgnatius wrote:Actually, given my poor health and the fact that my to do list is at least as high as the Empire State building, it may take more than a year. Thus, my horror in reading about this upgrade of phpbb.
Unless phpBB 3.1 is released soon, I would guess that phpBB 3.0 will be supported for at least another year.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB 3.1 "Ascraeus" to require PHP 5.3.2

Post by Paul » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:01 am

BroIgnatius wrote:
Marshalrusty wrote:You, like many before you, have a legacy code problem. This does not, however, mean that it is acceptable to drag down everything else on the system to stay compatible with the old stuff, particularly if you're in the least bit concerned about security (which you even mentioned).

Until you're ready to fix it properly, create a separate environment (such as another VM) running chilisoft and whatever else you need, freeing up the main system to be brought into this decade.
LOL, it will take six months to a year to migrate all the asp files, and asp driven features, to html/php. Actually, given my poor health and the fact that my to do list is at least as high as the Empire State building, it may take more than a year. Thus, my horror in reading about this upgrade of phpbb.

But, there is nothing I can do about it. Running an other environment is not possible. The server account is either in Apache 2 (which is incompatible) or it is in Apache 1 (which is compatible). Thus, it must remain in the Apache 1 mode until someday I can get all the asp stuff off the site. Apache 2 is completely current, but it just will not run asp.

Ah, well.
so, why you think phpBB would cause security issues, if you are running several years old, unsupported with known issues, software?
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