[Discuss] Introducing Forumatic - Managed phpBB Hosting

Do not post support requests, bug reports or feature requests. Discuss phpBB here. Non-phpBB related discussion goes in General Discussion!
Ideas Centre
Pony99CA
Registered User
Posts: 4783
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:13 pm
Location: Hollister, CA
Name: Steve
Contact:

Re: Why there isnt atleast beta version of 3.1??

Post by Pony99CA » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:31 pm

MarkTheDaemon wrote:Say when 3.1 does get released and new features are added, does this mean that Forumatic will get the new features before they are released into phpBB as a downloadable package that the average user can install?
Who cares? As has been already stated, anybody is free to pull the phpBB 3.1 code and run a board based on it. Unless Forumatic is getting the code before it has been checked into Git, they have no advantage over other development-savvy people.
MarkTheDaemon wrote:I'm interested in the relationship between Forumatic and the phpBB software, will we all have to sign up to Forumatic and let them run our boards in order to get the latest release of phpBB? How long might it be between Forumatic pushing a feature out and it appearing the phpBB package that anyone can download?
See above. Many people could download and run phpBB 3.1 now. I don't know if an installer is included if you do that, but if not, I presume Forumatic wouldn't have one, either (unless they created their own).

Steve
Silicon Valley Pocket PC (http://www.svpocketpc.com)
Creator of manage_bots and spoof_user (ask me)
Need hosting for a small forum with full cPanel & MySQL access? Contact me or PM me.

Oleg
Former Team Member
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:42 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Re: Why there isnt atleast beta version of 3.1??

Post by Oleg » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:35 pm

You can't have it both ways. If you think the new features are production-ready and it is evil developers who are not releasing a beta version for reasons unknown, then you must also grant that forumatic is sufficiently stable and functional.

In practice some people would think that and some people would think the opposite. Forumatic has a target audience; you may or may not be in it.
Participate in phpBB development: Get involved | Issue tracker | Report a bug | Development board | [url=irc://chat.freenode.net/phpbb-dev]Development IRC chat[/url]
My stuff: mindlinkgame.com

MarkTheDaemon
Former Team Member
Posts: 2770
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:42 am
Location: United Kingdom
Name: Mark Barnes

Re: Why there isnt atleast beta version of 3.1??

Post by MarkTheDaemon » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:22 pm

wGEric wrote:I would like to know this as well since it appears to be a separate business that Nils and Yuriy are running and has no relationship to phpBB Ltd. If it is under the phpBB Ltd umbrella then why isn't that obvious?
I think that's the main point, is Forumatic an official branch of the project? If it is then that's great, if it isn't I'd suggest that if phpBB were a genuine business Yuriy, Nils and any others behind the scenes would have a conflict of interest between the interests of the phpBB project and the interests of Forumatic.
Pony99CA wrote:Unless Forumatic is getting the code before it has been checked into Git, they have no advantage over other development-savvy people.
My point is that it isn't inconcievable that this could happen, if the Forumatic team is made up of phpBB team members. Then where are we? We've got a paid service that has the latest and greatest features and fixes in it before stable phpBB versions are released, and the open source project behind Forumatic feels like a very distant brother, cut away from the rest of the family.

User avatar
Marshalrusty
Project Manager
Project Manager
Posts: 29252
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:45 pm
Location: New York City
Name: Yuriy Rusko
Contact:

Re: Why there isnt atleast beta version of 3.1??

Post by Marshalrusty » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:56 am

The idea for Forumatic was born out of a desire to improve the long-term success of the phpBB project. We looked at the models used by other open source software organizations (Wordpress, drupal, Webkit, various Linux Distributions, etc.) and decided that a managed hosting service would be a perfect solution. At the moment, all phpBB users take the software and deploy it on 3rd party hosting platforms. The vast majority of users do not have time or the skills to properly maintain their installation, which is why we see so many "one-click installers" with the ability to, often improperly, install and update popular software like phpBB. Forumatic solves this problem by offering a fully maintained option to users who just want a forum without any hassles. At the moment, the only way to contribute to phpBB is to personally be involved in the community. Users of Forumatic effectively contribute resources back into the development of the phpBB software. Additional resources will be funneled back into the community where none were present before.

When this was brought up internally, some team members voiced strong objections to the phpBB project directly engaging in a for-profit venture. It was therefore decided that Forumatic would be a separate legal entity, leaving the open source project to continue behaving and making decision like it always has. Much like Wordpress.com/Automattic is to Wordpress.org, Acquia is to Drupal, and Canonical is to Ubuntu, Forumatic can hire phpBB developers, contribute code, host events, etc.
Have comments/praise/complaints/suggestions? Please feel free to PM me.

Need private help? Hire me for all your phpBB and web development needs

MarkTheDaemon
Former Team Member
Posts: 2770
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:42 am
Location: United Kingdom
Name: Mark Barnes

Re: Why there isnt atleast beta version of 3.1??

Post by MarkTheDaemon » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:29 am

Thanks for the clarification Yuriy. If Forumatic is to phpBB is what Automattic is to WordPress there shouldn't be any problems and it should actually progress the project forward as you say.

Without getting too much involved in the business case of the idea (and I'm sure you've done the market research anyway) I'd have thought that the biggest selling point was the phpBB brand itself. I understand why team members may be apprenhensive about the project entering into a for profit venture but does that also extend to the brand itself? For example, while Automattic is the company behind the ideas, their biggest venture is called WordPress.com/WordPress.com VIPs because obviously the WordPress name is instantly recognisable in the marketplace. Could there ever be a case for the phpBB project moving to phpBB.org and a service similar to WordPress being offered at the phpBB.com URL? I would suggest there could, but that obviously depends on the teams thoughts on using the phpBB brand commercially.

Speaking from an outsiders perspective, the name Forumatic doesn't scream out "phpBB" immediately to me. If I didn't know better, I would just assume it was another generic one click install forum host, not one that is tied so closely and has the expertise of a forum software project behind it. If that was clearer it may sway me to purchase the Forumatic services over another brand.

I realise we're way off topic with this discussion in this particular thread but I think it's an interesting one to have.

User avatar
Ephemeraboy
Registered User
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: Bandung Kota Hujan
Name: Bernando Bona Tius Sianipar
Contact:

Re: [Discuss] Introducing Forumatic - Managed phpBB Hosting

Post by Ephemeraboy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:25 am

so, where is the announcement
for forumatic
i even do not see a one
My diary, my notepad, and my life on
http://www.bonatius.com
My online shop at
http://www.nefara.com

User avatar
callumacrae
Former Team Member
Posts: 2662
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: London, UK
Name: Callum Macrae
Contact:

Re: [Discuss] Introducing Forumatic - Managed phpBB Hosting

Post by callumacrae » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:42 am

Ephemeraboy wrote:so, where is the announcement
for forumatic
i even do not see a one
In the announcements forum - there is a link to it in the first post of this thread, too :-D
macr.ae = my website. you probably won't like it.
Proud user ofProud user of

User avatar
Marshalrusty
Project Manager
Project Manager
Posts: 29252
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:45 pm
Location: New York City
Name: Yuriy Rusko
Contact:

Re: [Discuss] Introducing Forumatic - Managed phpBB Hosting

Post by Marshalrusty » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:52 am

callumacrae wrote:In the announcements forum - there is a link to it in the first post of this thread, too :-D
He beat the announcement by just under two minutes :P
Have comments/praise/complaints/suggestions? Please feel free to PM me.

Need private help? Hire me for all your phpBB and web development needs

User avatar
/a3
Registered User
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:08 am
Location: /dev/random

Re: [Discuss] Introducing Forumatic - Managed phpBB Hosting

Post by /a3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:49 am

Slightly coincidental that Forumatic only just got brought up in that other topic before the announcement?

Anyway, not the slightest bit interested in your business ventures. Why isn't phpBB promoting other forum hosting platforms like Forumotion?
$ git commit -m "YOLO"

User avatar
naderman
Consultant
Consultant
Posts: 3735
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:06 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Name: Nils Adermann
Contact:

Re: [Discuss] Introducing Forumatic - Managed phpBB Hosting

Post by naderman » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:58 am

/a3 wrote:Slightly coincidental that Forumatic only just got brought up in that other topic before the announcement?
The people who started talking about it here, had seen a preview version on facebook, so not really a coincidence.
/a3 wrote:Anyway, not the slightest bit interested in your business ventures. Why isn't phpBB promoting other forum hosting platforms like Forumotion?
They don't contribute back to phpBB.
I appreciate gifts from my Amazon wishlist.
naderman.de twitter: @naderman

MarkTheDaemon
Former Team Member
Posts: 2770
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:42 am
Location: United Kingdom
Name: Mark Barnes

Re: [Discuss] Introducing Forumatic - Managed phpBB Hosting

Post by MarkTheDaemon » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:45 pm

/a3 wrote: Anyway, not the slightest bit interested in your business ventures. Why isn't phpBB promoting other forum hosting platforms like Forumotion?
Forumatic, Forumotion. Very similar names, going to both sites I wouldn't know that one was run by a company unrelated to the software it offers and the other is run by the very same people who design and create the software it offers.

It would be interesting to hear the rationale behind the name choice, and whether usage of the phpBB name was considered for this service?

Malphas
Registered User
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:13 pm

Re: Why there isnt atleast beta version of 3.1??

Post by Malphas » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:48 pm

MarkTheDaemon wrote:Without getting too much involved in the business case of the idea (and I'm sure you've done the market research anyway) I'd have thought that the biggest selling point was the phpBB brand itself. I understand why team members may be apprenhensive about the project entering into a for profit venture but does that also extend to the brand itself? For example, while Automattic is the company behind the ideas, their biggest venture is called WordPress.com/WordPress.com VIPs because obviously the WordPress name is instantly recognisable in the marketplace. Could there ever be a case for the phpBB project moving to phpBB.org and a service similar to WordPress being offered at the phpBB.com URL? I would suggest there could, but that obviously depends on the teams thoughts on using the phpBB brand commercially.
I wouldn't model things on the way Wordpress.com/org do things, it's more a source of confusion than anything else. For instance you frequently get users on Wordpress.org asking why a specific shortcode doesn't work, or some other feature which is actually a .com feature and either a plugin or unavailable on a normal Wordpress installation. I think it's better to have some sort of distinction beyond just the TLD.
MarkTheDaemon wrote:Speaking from an outsiders perspective, the name Forumatic doesn't scream out "phpBB" immediately to me. If I didn't know better, I would just assume it was another generic one click install forum host, not one that is tied so closely and has the expertise of a forum software project behind it. If that was clearer it may sway me to purchase the Forumatic services over another brand.
Agreed, however. I just assumed Forumatic was another "me too" hosting service. The fact it looked like there was some connection to certain phpBB team members without explicitly being stated this was an official offshoot just added a slightly unsavoury edge to it. It would be of benefit to make it more clear that this is tied to phpBB (although to the chagrin of other commercial phpBB host providers no doubt).

MarkTheDaemon
Former Team Member
Posts: 2770
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:42 am
Location: United Kingdom
Name: Mark Barnes

Re: Why there isnt atleast beta version of 3.1??

Post by MarkTheDaemon » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:05 pm

Malphas wrote: I wouldn't model things on the way Wordpress.com/org do things, it's more a source of confusion than anything else. For instance you frequently get users on Wordpress.org asking why a specific shortcode doesn't work, or some other feature which is actually a .com feature and either a plugin or unavailable on a normal Wordpress installation. I think it's better to have some sort of distinction beyond just the TLD.
I don't know if it's still the case but there used to be plenty of support requests turning up here regarding free forum providers anyway so I think you get that whether you run your own service or not, whatever the name of it is. I think it's just important that people are aware that phpBB is behind the venture, that's one of the USPs for the service and the project should be shouting about it, IMHO.

wGEric
Former Team Member
Posts: 8805
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Friday
Name: Eric Faerber
Contact:

Re: Why there isnt atleast beta version of 3.1??

Post by wGEric » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:09 pm

Great! It is good to see a company that will contribute to phpBB that isn't on a strictly volunteer basis.

As for stability, I'm guessing their target market is for smaller personal sites. Sites that if there is a bug it won't cause them to lose money or if something changes it isn't the end of the world. Sites that are more flexible in their needs. I definitely would not recommend any business that needs stability to be using a service that is using code that the developers say isn't even alpha quality or could be changing drastically at any moment.
Eric

User avatar
noth
Registered User
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:10 pm
Location: North Surrey
Contact:

Re: [Discuss] Introducing Forumatic - Managed phpBB Hosting

Post by noth » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:26 pm

Ouch, don't pull any punches whatever you do! :lol:

Apart from that, I wish Forumatic good luck. A brave new venture, I hope it reaps benefits and revenue to phpBB users and Team.

Post Reply

Return to “phpBB Discussion”