New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:15 pm

several years ago, when spam really started to become a major issue, there were laws in certain places that required opt-in. it therefore become the defacto standard and opt-out became illegal in some places.

the point is that using phpbb the way it is designed allows you to offer opt-in which is the fair way to do it.

if you want to get notifications ( by email or on the page ) about a post being made to a given forum/topic, you subscribe to that forum/topic, then you set your notification preferences as you like.

that way, you don't have to go back and find the off button for a bunch of emails that you did not ask for.

now, having said all of that, you can certainly setup your board however you wish but the opt-in method is the standard for most things. ( apprently not including facebook )

luck,
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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by xgarb » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:29 pm

Here's a scenario to explain why we would like this option.

It's based on my experiences helping people use their computer and the problems they have.

Meet Arnold. Arnold is a basic computer user. He has Gmail, he can find and use various news sites, he can use Skype and can use Google to find information.

Arnold has a collection of model BMW cars. One day he is searching Google for information about one of his models and sees a link to a post on modelbmwcars.xyz mentioning the model he is researching.

He clicks the link and finds himself in a phpBB forum topic about colours this model was available in. He reads the topic and wants to know if anyone has actually seen the blue one as he has never found one. So he presses the reply button.

Next he sees a form to fill in with his email address and to create a password. He's not sure about this but is really keen to find out about the model colour so signs up to the board. He sees a message about checking his email.

He closes the browser and opens it again to find Gmail (I've seen two people do this - every time they go to a new site they close the browser and open it again)

He finds the confirmation link and clicks it. It tells him he is registered and he can post but he has no idea where the post he found in Google is so he closes and opens and again and finds the post in Google.

This time he clicks the reply button he can write a message. He asks his question and then clicks Submit and sees his question in the forum. He waits a bit wondering if people will reply straight away. Then goes off around the internet for a bit. Later he finds the topic in Google again and finds it unanswered.

He then closes everything and gets on with other stuff. He left his email address with the forum when he signed up so he thinks 'maybe someone will email him'?

Arnold is now lost to this thread. Unless he remembers to search using the same terms he did before then he'll never find this post again. Maybe he'll try clicking the signup confirmation link again to go to the site but he still has to find his post somehow.

OR....
One day someone replies to his post. He gets an email and can go directly to his post and see the reply. Eventually Arnold becomes a confident user of modelbnwcars.xyz

This is why we want this option. For some forums the users will not be familiar with the concept of posting and notifications at all and they will need prompting to come back to the site when there is something for them.

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:36 pm

you left out one very important stop for arnold. once he registered on the board and found that post that had the info he liked, he should have simply clicked the button to subscribe to that forum/topic and then all the rest of those steps would have been eleminated.

it is really incumbent on we the users to learn how to use the hardware and software that we desire to use.

I too teach newbies about using computers and the internet etc. I belive it is much better to teach people how to do things the right way rather than try and make everything just automatic. when something automatic stops working, the user has no idea what went wrong or what to do and is completely lost.

you know the old quote: " give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". or something like that.

;)

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by xgarb » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:48 pm

Yep if Arnold doesn't stop reading at Disable BBCode, Disable smiles, Do not automatically parse URLs in the options list. The whole interface will be overload for him.

My experience is you teach people all the correct steps and they often forget the next time they have to do it. It's better to make it simple with a short cut they click for example.

Re the spam aspect. I'm pretty sure you could argue the user already has a relationship with the site and one notification email couldn't be classed as spam. A problem could be people lazily marking emails as spam in Hotmail etc rather than opening and unsubscribing and this leading to being blacklisted. This would be a consideration for the site admin on whether to opt-out or opt-in notifications.

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by xgarb » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:15 am

For anyone who's interested... RFC here: http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 81&t=50056

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:39 pm

This would be a consideration for the site admin on whether to opt-out or opt-in notifications.
as would the legal considerations of opt-in versus opt-out. depending on the laws in your country of course.


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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by Bullseye! » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:30 am

Mick wrote:At least twice in this topic I've seen the phrase "most people".
parshakov wrote:but most people are not tech-savvy
Marking most people as not tech-savvy is insulting and untrue. I'm part of the older generation most people group and believe me I'm savvy.
Bullseye! wrote:everyone will just use FB instead of the forums because the notifications are set by default, people don't like messing about with settings, most people who use the internet these days don't bother to visit sites unless they get notifications
Codswallop, again, how can you speak for most people? If people want to go solely to FB they will whether or not phpBB is altered to give you what you want.

Nobody can speak for everybody else unless they have a mandate to do so so I can only assume you mean me and everybody else has to agree.

If you really want this change you can either post an RFC on Area51 or request an extension, it's that simple.

I wasn't refering to the older generation, if anything I was refering to younger people 18 - 22 year olds that depend on notifications, anyway since it has been made totally impossible to have these simple notifications delivered by default, I now have virtaully no one on my forum anymore, they've all fled to facebook.... GG :(

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:14 pm

maybe your forum/board needs some work to make it more interesting to your members so they will be more likely to visit.


many many boards seem to do just fine without making this change.

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by Bullseye! » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:42 pm

I never checked the box to recieve notifications when I joined this site Lumpy, yet I still get them, am I going to take phpbb to court on some trumped up charge for "spamming" no I am not, facebook also have notifications by default, I don't see any law suit being bought against them either.... I do have things on interest on there for my people, it's just that if it doesn't beep, they don't know it's there, just about every other forum I am on have this set by default!

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:16 pm

I meant no offense about your board in particular with my previous post. I was only trying to make the point that if a board has content that the members want to know about, they will not usually leave just because they don't get a beep telling them they have a notification or because they don't automatically get an email .
The whole point of a web based bulletin board is that you vistit the website to see what is going on

as far as I can tell, phpbb does not send email for PMs by default. I don't believe this site does either.
In phpbb2 this was the default to send out emails for PMs and it is possible that it is also true for 3.0 ( I am not sure ) but since notifications came out with 3.1, it is no longer default for emails for PMs.

you will get email notification for topics/forums you have subscribed to by default and that is because you are asking for it by just subscribing to the forum etc.

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by sookie » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:38 pm

This thread is old but critical.

The people arguing that people should have to opt-in are so absolutely wrong, and hell bent on destroying their own forums.

Its 2017 people. People WANT to be notified. Its the facebook model. Its exactly why facebook crushed everyone. Facebook sucks you back in by notifying you of everything, period. People are used to this now, they EXPECT it.

When you agree to sign up to my phpbb board YOU ARE opting in to be notified. Just change your registration text. By signing up to this site, you are opting in top be notified of everything you participate in. Then its not Spam by definition. IF they really want to, they can turn it off later, just like facebook.

Turning notifications ON by default for PM's, for replies to topics you have posted in,etc, IS CRITICAL to keeping your site alive.

Otherwise you might as well throw in the towel to facebook and their facebook groups that will CRUSH your site.

Email notifications are the minimum requirement to compete with Facebook groups.
Im absolutely stunned at how many people dont get this and are arguing that everyone should have to manually opt in for every little thing they do to be notified. Beyond dumb.

The best thing phpBB could do right now is create a brand-able notification app for smartphones. I want an android notification to popup on my phone with a link I can click to see replies to my thread. This would be huuuuuuuge to staving off facebook.

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by stevemaury » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:52 pm

Facebook and Bulletin Boards fill entirely separate niches. The latter is for in-depth long-term discussion of a specific, defined area of interest.
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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by peopleinside » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:38 pm

I agree, feel a bad decision of phpbb to turn off notification by default... but I had already participated in this, seems phpbb not want hear about that so I stopped to ask and to discuss this.

I cannot understand phpbb ... is a great software but they decided to keep user not informed about PM, topic reply etc by default. This has no sense for me.
When you create an account, start to do a topic it's normal that you want be alerted when someone reply to you, no... here is not.

I AM with all user that are telling that user should have all notification or or should be able to decide what to be on in the registration like maybe mybb forum.

I will try to no more particulate in this discussion as I understood that... seems this will be not changed on phpbb.

As I told I believe the right way is to let the user decide when he register or turn on by default all notification and make easy to deactivate.

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by xgarb » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:01 am

stevemaury wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:52 pm
Facebook and Bulletin Boards fill entirely separate niches. The latter is for in-depth long-term discussion of a specific, defined area of interest.
Tell this to the countless forums on the internet that have seen their users go over to their Facebook pages for discussion.

I agree Facebook is crap for proper discussion but if you are one of the many people who think the web is Facebook and by chance you are outside of the Facebook eco-system and you post on a forum you don't expect to have to go back and check for replies. In fact you probably wouldn't be able to find your own post.

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Re: New users don't get email notifications for private messages by default

Post by xgarb » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:05 am

peopleinside wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:38 pm
I agree, feel a bad decision of phpbb to turn off notification by default... but I had already participated in this, seems phpbb not want hear about that so I stopped to ask and to discuss this.

As I told I believe the right way is to let the user decide when he register or turn on by default all notification and make easy to deactivate.
Same here. I don't understand why it can't be set by the admin when they set up the forum. A tickbox for 'Facebook mode' is all we want so we don't have to hack about with the code to make it do what we want.

Discourse does this right - https://www.discourse.org/features check out dynamic notifications.

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