[Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

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3Di
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by 3Di »

colnector wrote:To my understanding, phpBB already has the tools needed to allow translations
You take the files and translate them then you have to submit the language pack to the customisation database?
It is not a tool, more a way to contribute to the project for the Community's sake/benefit.
Like extensions are. At the end of all a translation it is somehow an "extension" of the phpBB that comes shipped just with British English. ;)
colnector wrote:so no need to create/find a tool to do something as complex as on Colnect.
As complex to what? I did read this Topic, the very interesting part is the last post (of you), so complex?
colnector wrote:All that's needed is someone of the phpBB team who'd take the role of being pro-actively responsible for translations and translators.
You know, you already got answers about this question, re-iterating: the Teams are all volunteers, so we users/extension writers/fan club or whatever you want to call us .. are.
colnector wrote: From what I see, the biggest problem is that phpBB issued some pages about translations and from that point on awaits passively for people to step forward and translate well.
IMHO, due to all of what you did read in this years, answers to your only very big question (Collecting all of the phpBB language packs and have them always up-to-date, magically... because you are a collector and that's it) doesn't allow you to criticise so hard the Management of another site, it is GPL.. take it or leave it.
colnector wrote: This isn't a good solution and I think it's evident considering how many languages still don't have 3.1.x support at all.
It is due to the single Translator to update or not the packages, based on a free volunteer basis.

If I were you, and your Translators Team really need to collect all of the up-to-dated language packs.. well, I will inform the phpBB dot com management of my will-- Hey guys, me and my translators team we want to help the phpBB project and we are ready to start.. what we have to do..?

If you think the other guys are not properly sit on their own chairs.

All of this being said, I didn't want to be rude nor anything else. ;) A constructive criticism to all of yours, nothing more nothing else.
Be constructive, start doing something.. I think it is the best way to show us you are not just a collector.

In the last posts before yours we are talking about a TOOL or call it whatever (a pro tool) to may be used/coded or whatever.. a real tool. Maybe integrated with the main repositories there at github.

Ok, wrote on the fly. I am not English mother-tongue. :)
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by colnector »

3Di wrote:It is not a tool
I meant there's a way for the community to do the translations, nothing is missing technologically.
3Di wrote:At the end of all a translation it is somehow an "extension" of the phpBB that comes shipped just with British English. ;)
This view is at the root of the problem. The pphBB team doesn't see languages as a core part of the product and that's why is looks the way it does now. I'd be happy to learn that this view finally changes. While English is the dominant language online, having a product properly available to non-English speakers should be an important priority IMHO.
3Di wrote:I did read this Topic, the very interesting part is the last post (of you), so complex?
I wasn't referring to the simple Google Translate button on Colnect but rather to our entire translation system that allows translators to translate online. You're welcome to read about it here: http://colnect.com/en/help/collecting/more_languages or even further on http://colnect.com/en/collectors/wiki/title=Translation
3Di wrote:You know, you already got answers about this question, re-iterating: the Teams are all volunteers, so we users/extension writers/fan club or whatever you want to call us .. are.
Translation team and manager on Colnect are also all volunteers. That doesn't change my suggestion that there's someone made responsible for internationalization of phpBB.
3Di wrote:doesn't allow you to criticise so hard the Management of another site, it is GPL.. take it or leave it.
I'm pointing issues that should be addressed AND offer the help of our community. IMHO "Take it or leave it" isn't the way projects are improved.
3Di wrote:All of this being said, I didn't want to be rude nor anything else. ;) A constructive criticism to all of yours, nothing more nothing else.
Be constructive, start doing something.. I think it is the best way to show us you are not just a collector.
Well, you were actually rude and even continued with a rude comment, "not just a collector". I don't know what your role in the phpBB community is and certainly hope you attitude and response doesn't represent an official one. I'd actually prefer not to continue any related discussion with you if you keep dragging this to a personal level rather than discussing the topic at hand.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by 3Di »

3Di wrote:IMHO
In my humble opinion. So, personal.

Please consider to re-read the whole post of mine and reply point by point, do not take excerpts from it and play the dice as you like, that's my impression.

regards. :)

P.s.: I am not a arguing guy, what I said it is what I said. Nothing more I have to.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by HPK »

phpBB 3.2 Beta 1 is now on Github :)
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by DavidIQ »

colnector wrote:This view is at the root of the problem. The pphBB team doesn't see languages as a core part of the product and that's why is looks the way it does now. I'd be happy to learn that this view finally changes. While English is the dominant language online, having a product properly available to non-English speakers should be an important priority IMHO.
I can't imagine that whatever product it is that you're involved in that includes 60+ translations actually sticks to a release schedule or it may be that it has a schedule so far out that it allows for everyone to finish translating strings.

If we did the same thing then bug fix releases would take many months instead of weeks. Having only one translation in the product that a large part of the world uses, third to Chinese and spanish, is something we prefer to do to speed up releases. And force feeding every language pack to everyone while they will only use a single language pack is also something that neither looks nor sounds pretty.

If you've somehow managed to find a way to make timely releases AND include 60+ completed and updated language packs then I'm eagerly anticipating your response to Marshalrusty.

P.S. I think you might have missed the fact that a discussion board generally caters to a single language. There are very few instances where a board is multi-language where everyone is allowed to post in whatever language they want since the community is communicating in a single language. Having different language packs included would not change that. A desktop product is a different story altogether.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by colnector »

DavidIQ wrote:I can't imagine that whatever product it is that you're involved in that includes 60+ translations actually sticks to a release schedule or it may be that it has a schedule so far out that it allows for everyone to finish translating strings.

If we did the same thing then bug fix releases would take many months instead of weeks. Having only one translation in the product that a large part of the world uses, third to Chinese and spanish, is something we prefer to do to speed up releases. And force feeding every language pack to everyone while they will only use a single language pack is also something that neither looks nor sounds pretty.
I didn't mean that release should be delayed awaiting translations, just that translations should be considered an important integral part of the product and be managed as such by someone of the team. On phpBB, unlike Colnect, there are much less translations to be made and the change rate is very minor. Had there been a person responsible for translations that would monitor and alert volunteer translators to update translations, by the time you would have announced the release of a new version, it would have had most its translations ready, perhaps except for the few ones that had some changes since an alpha version.
DavidIQ wrote:If you've somehow managed to find a way to make timely releases AND include 60+ completed and updated language packs then I'm eagerly anticipating your response to Marshalrusty.
On Colnect, sometimes we release features only for translators a week or two in advance so they could translate. At other times, we release in English and once the translator goes online, they translate it. As each language has a few translations, this often is done within a day or two. Meanwhile, parts are shown in English which isn't great but much better than not having them at all or deciding there's no service in the other language a user desires to use.

I did reply to the PM I received from Marshalrusty very quickly and await further reply.

DavidIQ wrote:P.S. I think you might have missed the fact that a discussion board generally caters to a single language. There are very few instances where a board is multi-language where everyone is allowed to post in whatever language they want since the community is communicating in a single language. Having different language packs included would not change that. A desktop product is a different story altogether.
I do understand most boards are for a single language and that's fine. Here I'm talking about the fact that there are still many languages which are not updated for 3.1.x. This discussion is unrelated to my request in another topic for having a single package including all translations. That would make a fantastic feature as a boards could be offered in different languages, but it isn't the topic I was raising here.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by DavidIQ »

colnector wrote:I didn't mean that release should be delayed awaiting translations, just that translations should be considered an important integral part of the product and be managed as such by someone of the team. On phpBB, unlike Colnect, there are much less translations to be made and the change rate is very minor. Had there been a person responsible for translations that would monitor and alert volunteer translators to update translations, by the time you would have announced the release of a new version, it would have had most its translations ready, perhaps except for the few ones that had some changes since an alpha version.
Oh I see. You're assuming we don't do this already when in fact we do, several days before a release be it alpha, beta or release candidate. Most translators take longer than that to notice and finish their translation. Under your model we would just include all of those language packs that are either incomplete or wrong (in the case that a string was incorrect). If the update comes after the release it sounds like they would have to wait for the next release. Doesn't sound very ideal. Maybe whatever you sent to Marshalrusty sounds a bit better than that. We'll see.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by david63 »

Are you not just "going round in circles" here? Perhaps this would be better discussed at area51
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by colnector »

DavidIQ wrote: Oh I see. You're assuming we don't do this already when in fact we do, several days before a release be it alpha, beta or release candidate. Most translators take longer than that to notice and finish their translation. Under your model we would just include all of those language packs that are either incomplete or wrong (in the case that a string was incorrect). If the update comes after the release it sounds like they would have to wait for the next release. Doesn't sound very ideal. Maybe whatever you sent to Marshalrusty sounds a bit better than that. We'll see.
The only thing I'm assuming is that there isn't one person in charge of translations and translator who is pro-actively checking the status of translations and keeps alerting translators. I've initially tried to get in contact with that person but from answers here understood such a position doesn't exist.
What you're describing supports that assumption. There's a list of translators (mailing list?) and they get notified about a release and from that point on it depends on them.

On Colnect there are hundreds of volunteering translators who are actively managed by the translations manager. If a translator doesn't respond promptly, they don't stay a translator. The manager actively seeks a few translators to each language to ensure there is someone to respond promptly when further translations are needed.

An additional technological solution could enable choosing language in the admin control panel and get the relevant packages to download/update phpbb.com so that when fixes to a language package are introduced, they can quickly be updated.

I'm actually repeatedly trying to offer the help of our community to phpBB so that it would improve. As our community, truly international community with people using Colnect in dozens of language, have been using phpBB, I thought that would be nice to give some back. However, I'm getting the impression that, at least in this thread, my tries to highlight an existing problem and offer solutions are not really welcome. If that's true, I'll stop wasting your time and mine.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

so far, you seem to be the only person that really thinks this is a major problem.


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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by RMcGirr83 »

colnector wrote:I'm actually repeatedly trying to offer the help of our community to phpBB so that it would improve.
Anyone can apply to become a translator https://www.phpbb.com/languages/apply.php whether or not that is acted on by whomever that it gets sent to is a matter for another topic.

FWIW, there are some "team members' that haven't been active in a long time. Why they are still team members is anyone's guess.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by darcie »

colnector wrote:The only thing I'm assuming is that there isn't one person in charge of translations and translator who is pro-actively checking the status of translations and keeps alerting translators. I've initially tried to get in contact with that person but from answers here understood such a position doesn't exist.
What you're describing supports that assumption. There's a list of translators (mailing list?) and they get notified about a release and from that point on it depends on them.
There is a person in charge of Translations here, and that contact info is on the Languages page. Yuriy also replied to your PM yesterday, to my knowledge. We'd love to hear your ideas there instead of going around in circles here. Let's table that discussion in this topic for now, thanks!
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by koraldon »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:so far, you seem to be the only person that really thinks this is a major problem.


robert
In my own language this is a major issue, as the translation is not being updated since 3.1.2
But, if you are an american or native English speaker, the rest of the world is not interesting...

If the position of translations coordinator is empty, it should be a priority to find one. If colnector voulanteers for it that's great.
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Re: [Discuss] phpBB Release, Security and Support Plan

Post by AmigoJack »

DavidIQ wrote:I think you might have missed the fact that a discussion board generally caters to a single language.
Correct, and that single language can be one of those that aren't fully available (in contrast to English, which is always fully available). That's the point. Not having multiple languages, but one of all possible languages.
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:you seem to be the only person that really thinks this is a major problem
He's virtually speaking for everyone using one translation only, so effectively he can't be the only one.
DavidIQ wrote:
colnector wrote:Who to talk to
Any one of the managers really or even the entire managers list.
david63 wrote:Try "The team" in the footer
RMcGirr83 wrote:there are some "team members' that haven't been active in a long time
This is a problem that could be solved easily, yet nobody cares. Why is here not even one single group which users are allowed to send a PM to? On my board we allow this so whoever comes first can read the PM.
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