Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

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Christian 2.0
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Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by Christian 2.0 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:00 pm

Hi,

I'm raising the question on the back of: viewtopic.php?p=14528471#p14528471

Forgive my naivety, but it's not enough to simply default to 'request an extension' as an easy means to solving the topic. If we actually think about this:
  1. What extension Author will want to create, maintain and support a whole extension for one user's 5-line copy/paste job?
  2. The user then becomes entirely reliant on that extension Author
  3. If the end user is happy to implement a specific change again with every update, why does it matter whether it's hard coded or not?
It's really frustrating to see that 'request an extension' is becoming a boilerplate reply for many customisation requests around here.

This is the 15-20th time I've read this advice in a few weeks, and the ratio of extension requests:extensions in development would suggest this advice isn't working.

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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by CarpCharacin » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:56 pm

+1

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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by 3Di » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:22 pm

This is the 15-20th time I've read this advice in a few weeks, and the ratio of extension requests:extensions in development would suggest this advice isn't working.
Up to that there will people that continously insist on telling where to put that code here and there it will not work for sure as it should. Especially those registered since many years ago, that should learn how to use events and so on before to try to help out users, giving in most cases false advices.

phpBB ( >= 3.1.x )'s support should be given to those users doing things the right way and code related questions should be left to those they have a clue.

My 2€cents. Amen.

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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by Mick » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:21 am

We see many HTML, PHP and CSS coding questions posted in support which isn't the correct place to post such questions.
[3.1.x] Support Forum wrote: Get help with installation and running phpBB 3.1.x here. Please do not post bug reports, feature requests, or extension related questions here.
We do, on many occasions, just move the topic to the correct place but every now and again users have to be reminded.

It's my personal opinion that the extensions system works very well. The evidence can be seen by the reduced amount of cases in 3.1 support where users get tangled up editing their boards and then expect the community to sort it out for them when it doesn't work. See the 2.0 & 3.0 support forums for evidence.
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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by JimA » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:10 am

I think Christian makes a good point about that in saying that there's no extension author writing an entire extension just for the wishes of a single user that wants an often quite unique small change.

It's my personal opinion that there is nothing wrong with suggesting code changes when there is something that's easily solvable by changing a couple of lines, in fact I already do so quite often. However, when we're getting to the more complicated changes, I believe that suggesting to request an extension is the way to go, just like we would previously have asked the users to request a MOD. :)
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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:19 pm

the whole point of the extension system is to not have to make core edits. this solves a lot of problems, one of which is it makes the update process very quick and easy in most cases.

if you make core edits you are back to having to merge files with the old auto update method that caused so many so many problems over the years.

keep in mind how many people are still complaining about even having to use ftp to upload the extensions.


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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by ardenhag » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:24 pm

In my opinion, until there is a more detailed beginners guide to extension writing, editing the core will be the route people will take. The skeleton tool is a useful first step, but it still doesn't contain enough info for those of us with limited programming skills. The info I've found seems scattered across the phpb.com site and it all loses me very quickly :(

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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by rxu » Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:17 am

Hypothetically: what if we had some kind of 'extension for everything' extension embedded in the core (say, ext/phpbb/core) in order to implement such things as small/single/unique/custom core changes here and there via existing events. I can see possible pros and cons of that though.

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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by Mick » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:08 am

rxu wrote:'extension for everything' extension
Make a request ;)
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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by Mess » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:08 pm

rxu wrote:Hypothetically: what if we had some kind of 'extension for everything' extension embedded in the core (say, ext/phpbb/core) in order to implement such things as small/single/unique/custom core changes here and there via existing events. I can see possible pros and cons of that though.
Thats a great idea rxu. That would give us the best of both worlds.
I used to use a lot of minor edits. But after extensions I gave up on the whole hacking thing. To keep my installation clean.
Having a bulk extension would mean that if I broke something I could always just disable the extension. And also upgrading would be a breeze (like it is now).

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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by Dog Cow » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:01 pm

Mick wrote: It's my personal opinion that the extensions system works very well. The evidence can be seen by the reduced amount of cases in 3.1 support where users get tangled up.
We already know that. Christian's point is that there aren't enough extension writers around here. :?

Christian 2.0 wrote: It's really frustrating to see that 'request an extension' is becoming a boilerplate reply for many customisation requests around here.
Then it'll be no surprise to see more and more users give a boilerplate reply of
mralanc wrote:Whatever.
(from topic linked to in first post)
and with that said, switch to vBulletin or XenForo or whatever other software. :roll:
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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by stevemaury » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:34 pm

There is nothing wrong with suggesting core file code changes to implement a small change, so long as the user is told that this will have to be re-done with every update. Some support team members already do this.
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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by optimusvault » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:19 am

What there needs to be is an extension that goes into the ADM which allows people to put custom code in most of the frequent event placements. I recall there being an extension for this but I'm not entirely sure if that is still being worked on, or has closed it's doors.

What people need in reality in 2016 is brains use Google before going to the support forum.
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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by Mick » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:20 pm

optimusvault wrote:What people need in reality in 2016 is brains use Google before going to the support forum
I'll vote for that.
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Re: Why 'reqeuest an extension' for every change?

Post by 3Di » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:19 pm

ardenhag wrote:In my opinion, until there is a more detailed beginners guide to extension writing, editing the core will be the route people will take. The skeleton tool is a useful first step, but it still doesn't contain enough info for those of us with limited programming skills. The info I've found seems scattered across the phpb.com site and it all loses me very quickly :(
https://github.com/phpbb-extensions/php ... leton/wiki
rxu wrote:Hypothetically: what if we had some kind of 'extension for everything' extension embedded in the core (say, ext/phpbb/core) in order to implement such things as small/single/unique/custom core changes here and there via existing events. I can see possible pros and cons of that though.
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