why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

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mp777
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why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by mp777 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:34 pm

Why can't we aggregate the core items instead of 500 different ways to update? Why does there always have to be problems upgrading this software? This is a fatal flaw. I appreciate the free nature of the project, but I'd rather shell out a few dollars if it means alleviating the headache of updating if I'm in danger of losing my forum (or my mind) w/every new version update.

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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by stevemaury » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:26 am

There is never a danger of losing anything if you backup files and database before upgrading/updating.

I, personally have never had an issue all the way through ver 2.0.x, 3.0,x and 3.1.x and now 3.2. But if you have a specific issue you can share with us, we'll do our best to help.
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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:29 am

I agree that there are too many different methods of updating and that is what gets people confused.

in most cases since 3.1 came out and there is no longer any need to edit the core files, this is usually the best method to update/upgrade phpbb:
backup everything before you begin.
1 download the full package of the newest version.
2. uzip it on your computer
3. remove the config.php file
4. remove all of your current files and folders except for the config.php file, and the files folder, the ext folder, the images folder and the store folder from the server.

5. upload all new files from the current version to your server (remember to remove the blank config.php file first )
6. in your browser, go to yourdomain.com/yourphpbb/install and click on the update tab and then choose to update the database only.

you are done.

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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by invenio » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:23 am

I've gone through about 4-5 versions and have had some difficulty with 2 (including not being able to upgrade to 3.2). I literally just emailed my hosting company if I can pay somebody there to take care of the upgrade.

It's so messy,.. you need compression software, ftp, add specific folders, delete specific files, etc. I wish all feature development would just stop and a simple "upgrade" button was added where you go to ACP, click update and that's it.

I know a little about computers but almost nothing about code or web servers. I usually only attempt an upgrade every other version to minimize the headache.

I love you phpBB developers and all the hardwork you do for free but for the average guy/girl, the updating system is horrendous. And overall really buggy (just look at the support forum).

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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by P_I » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:30 am

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:29 am
I agree that there are too many different methods of updating and that is what gets people confused.

in most cases since 3.1 came out and there is no longer any need to edit the core files, this is usually the best method to update/upgrade phpbb:
backup everything before you begin.
1 download the full package of the newest version.
2. uzip it on your computer
3. remove the config.php file
4. remove all of your current files and folders except for the config.php file, and the files folder, the ext folder, the images folder and the store folder from the server.

5. upload all new files from the current version to your server (remember to remove the blank config.php file first )
6. in your browser, go to yourdomain.com/yourphpbb/install and click on the update tab and then choose to update the database only.

you are done.

robert
robert, with all due respect to the service you provide to the phpBB community, posts like this are part of the problem, not the solution. That's why I posted the following earlier today:
P_I wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:29 pm
Within the phpbb.com website, there are a number of instances where the phpBB 3.x upgrade procedure is documented and unfortunately there are differences between each one. This makes it hard for a newer admin to find and follow the upgrade instructions.

There should be one documented location and a common method (KB BBCode?) to link to it so that all other instances should refer to this one.

It is made more difficult because many phpBB posters, including support team members, post instructions without a link to the documented location, thus increasing the number of sets of instructions that an admin may find when searching phpbb.com

Report filed: [WEBSITE-1309] Need a central and therefore consistent documentation of upgrade procedure - phpBB Tracker
Last edited by P_I on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by nuworld » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:31 am

Lets all remember back when 3.1 was released?
Many of the same issues we are seeing now with 3.2.

I agree with Robert (Lumpy) his method as with many others here with upgrading to any major version
should NOT use the auto upgrade options.
(This should be eliminated) from our ACP in future upgrades.

Plus IMO: any major upgrade like this?
Always use a test board/site first.
Second: read the support forums for issues before upgrading your live site.

History shows that some extension and style issues will be had with this type of upgrade.

Research and study first?

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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

also keep in mind that phpbb never was really designed with the newbie/beginner in mind.

from the beginning it has been assumed that people that want to use most open source software would have a few basics of understanding how to use computers, how to work with websites, ftp, databases etc.

if you don't want to get involved in the software then you should use something designed for that.

having said that, phpbb has come a long way since the beginning. it is way easier to install/update/use than it it used to be. the developers keep improving it in all the ways you are discussing, trying to make it easier for people to understand and use. I , for one, think they are doing an excellent job of that.


and, my point of posting that method is because of the problems you mentioned in that post. all you did was list the problems but offered no solution. I offered a solution that works very easily for most people in most situations. hopefully the developers will make some changes to the documentation sometime in the near future.

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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by J-W43 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:31 am

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:29 am
I agree that there are too many different methods of updating and that is what gets people confused.

in most cases since 3.1 came out and there is no longer any need to edit the core files, this is usually the best method to update/upgrade phpbb:
backup everything before you begin.
1 download the full package of the newest version.
2. uzip it on your computer
3. remove the config.php file [from the new files]
4. remove all of your current files and folders except for the config.php file, and the files folder, the ext folder, the images folder and the store folder from the server.
5. upload all new files from the current version to your server (remember to remove the blank config.php file first )
6. in your browser, go to yourdomain.com/yourphpbb/install and click on the update tab and then choose to update the database only.
you are done.
robert
This is more or less what I do, but I was told somewhere else to remove the install folder so I've never clicked to update the database (or the forum software), but you have to run a php file (functions.upload.php ??) to get rid of a warning that your forum software still needs upgrading.
Any comments?

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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by Mick » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:37 am

invenio wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:23 am
It's so messy,.. you need compression software, ftp, add specific folders, delete specific files, etc. I wish all feature development would just stop and a simple "upgrade" button was added where you go to ACP, click update and that's it
It is simple, preferably you follow the instructions for the manual upgrade assuming you haven't made any core changes.
invenio wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:23 am
you need compression software, ftp, add specific folders, delete specific files, etc. I wish all feature development would just stop and a simple "upgrade" button was added where you go to ACP, click update and that's it
As a board owner/founder admin/board tech/normal PC user it's assumed you already have knowledge of using ZIP, FTP, phpMyAdmin and run of the mill server file management, after all you installed your board. These aren't just something phpBB uses they are used in all walks of life on a daily basis.
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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by invenio » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:55 pm

Mick wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:37 am
As a board owner/founder admin/board tech/normal PC user it's assumed you already have knowledge of using ZIP, FTP, phpMyAdmin and run of the mill server file management, after all you installed your board. These aren't just something phpBB uses they are used in all walks of life on a daily basis.
It is this very assumption that is the greatest weakness of phpBB. phpBB is often used by people that may not have a lot of computer knowledge but want a cheap solution for running a message board. I think the developers (who obviously have an incredible amount of knowledge about coding/web software) presume this is the case for their user base. Before installing phpBB I had never even heard of "php" before and I've been using computers for 25 years. I've probably installed over 100 different pieces of software on my computer but none have given me so much difficulty with installation as phpBB. When I update libreoffice, my web browser, or even my entire OS I never start doing research on "how to do it" or "common problems". These are all either automatic or at best one double click endevour. phpBB is the exception to the rule as I am almost planning on having problems (which I have on more than one upgrade).

Perhaps it is my ignorance to think that webserver software such as phpBB could be made to update itself or to have a simple "one click" update process. I don't have experience in that field. Regardless, I really appreciate all the time and effort the developers have put into this software as well as all the people that come to these boards and try to help out us "dumb ones." phpBB is great software but not something for a novice... I wish it was as I think it would increase the user base.

BTW, when I first installed phpBB it was with a one click install via my hosting companies website (I can't remember the name as they changed it awhile back, it's now called MOJOmarketplace). It has only been with upgrades that I have had to do the downloading, unzipping, uploading, deleting....

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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by GhostfaceTJW » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:03 pm

I have to agree with the main topic title here... EVERY TIME i see an update is due i wonder how it will go.. whether it will go all ok in 5 minutes.. or like in the case with 3.2 that i end up seeing errors afterwards or having something not go right somewhere..

I always wonder how i survived this long without losing everything on my board which dates back to 2007... would love to see a release version of something that poses less of a risk of losing things or having thing added not working.... i always do a backup BEFORE AND AFTER each update though.

At this time i use Wordpress for my main site pages and structure.. and the update process there is simpler more recently... Although i do backup there all the time too just in case.

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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by david63 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:07 pm

@invenio

Whist some of what you say is valid I think you maybe somewhat missing the point. There is a vast difference between maintaining a PC and maintaining a web server.

To use an analogy - I have a car. I can put petrol in it, I can top up the water and oil, I can change a wheel. But if I wanted to "upgrade" the engine then I would not have a clue where to start without doing a lot of research first.

When I first started using web software (the best part of 30 years ago) I did not have a clue what I was doing (some would probably say I still don't!) but I learnt the hard way by reading what information there was (which was a lot less than there is now), trial end error and making some monumental errors that took days to sort out. Nothing has changed apart from the fact that there are some (perhaps many) who live in a world where everything has to be "put on a plate" for them
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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by Volksdevil » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:17 pm

nuworld wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:31 am
I agree with Robert (Lumpy) his method as with many others here with upgrading to any major version
should NOT use the auto upgrade options.
(This should be eliminated) from our ACP in future upgrades.
What percentage of phpBB users do you think would be lost because of that? Not catering for those who don't stick with the same as every other Tom, Dick, Harry I mean...

There has to be a decent percentage who modify core files because they like to improve, adjust or just generally change things to suit their needs. But I know some people keep ramming home (Almost robotic like) that you "Should not modify core files", even though the suggested update method has spoken of that for 'X' amount of time now...
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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by Mick » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:21 pm

invenio wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:55 pm
It is this very assumption that is the greatest weakness of phpBB.
I disagree, although it is down to phpBB make the transition as painless as possible, which they have in IMHO (delete some files, upload some more files and run the updater - job done in ten minutes or less) It is not down to this site to instruct users how to use Windows or iOS gadgets even though there are a few tutorials here for that purpose.
invenio wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:55 pm
phpBB is often used by people that may not have a lot of computer knowledge but want a cheap solution for running a message board
File management via FTP is no different to using a file manager on your PC, drag, drop, copy, paste, delete etc. I admit phpMyAdmin can be a tad daunting for a first time user but all information here that requires the use of phpMyAdmin specific instructions are given.

ZIP has been round since 1989 in the PKWARE days, tons of information on the web on how to use it. As far as I'm aware, zip comes on most OS's these days as standard so I don't understand why people don't know how to use it. phpMyAdmin has also been round since 1989 in one guise or another and FTP has been in action since the 1970's also with lots of information.

If you want it really tough ban yourself from Windows, or whatever GUI you use, for a few days and try DOS or other command line operating systems.
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Re: why is it ALWAYS such a headache to upgrade this software???

Post by heresolong » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:25 pm

I wanted to chime in with agreement in part and clarification in part.

Thing one, everyone here is always really helpful. That is greatly appreciated.

Thing two, I am fairly experienced in computers and have been running my message board for about fifteen years. The problem is that the upgrades, coming infrequently, generally result in problems for me. I don't remember the install process if it has been a year or so, and have to go back to square one. I am OK with the "how to find stuff and do steps", but each one seems to have some differences and rarely have I had an issue free install.

Case in point, current install, automatic update from 3.1.9 to 3.2.

Uploaded folders as instructed, pointed browser to install folder, nothing happened. Checked back and am told "upload to root folder, not phpbb folder". OK, I'll try that. Upload, point, nothing happens. Weird. Well, I'll delete the folders I uploaded and try again later.

Whoops, now I get a blank screen when I try to access Message Board which means that none of my members have access until I figure this out, which unfortunately won't be for a few days because I am working.

This is frustrating and in my mind stems from the lack of clarity of the instructions. If instructions are going to say "upload folders" they should be very specific as to exactly where the folders need to be uploaded to. In the manual instructions that I can remember the config.php file needs to be edited to allow writing, but the automatic update instructions don't mention this. Do the config.php file permissions need to be edited for auto update? I don't know. If they do, why would the board stop working if I didn't edit the permissions?

All of this will be figured out by me with the help of you good people on this forum, but it is frustrating and leads to me delaying updates because I don't want the hassle.

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