Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

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Methen
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Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by Methen » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:23 pm

In my opinion I think the biggest mistake that was made when creating the extensions version was they did not get all the previous mods and templates converted over to extensions first, Then they would not have such a severe shortage of mods like they do now...
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by Marc » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:44 pm

It simply would have been impossible to convert all MODs over to extensions. For starters, those MODs were/are written by their respective owners and not the phpBB team. We've created several tools and topics that should help a lot of moving things over to the extensions system. I think most also appreciated the creation of official extensions for a few commonly requested feature sets.

If any of you have suggestions that might help with easing the transition further feel free to post them here.

One of the goals of the extensions system was to actively discourage MODs and have the authors move over to the extensions system. Therefore, having a shortage of MODs is somewhat expected. ;)

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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by VSE » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:14 pm

It's also important to reiterate that MODs were not made by phpBB...they're made by the community. Thousands of people have contributed MODs totalling several hundred thousand man-hours of coding. Who would have put in all that time to re-write every MOD to an extension?

We created a special team, the Extension Development Team, years before 3.1 was released. This team's purpose was to build a handful of new extensions that were ready on day one of 3.1's release, as well as continue building official extensions and guiding the community as they learn to adapt from writing MODs to extensions.

As of today, there are roughly 1/3 of the number of extensions released as there were MODs at the end of 3.0. While that may seem small, I will say that a LOT of those MODs were junk. We feel we have a very healthy extension collection by now. And most of our community's most prolific MOD authors have converted their MODs to extensions.

Since it was up to each original MOD's author to update their creation to an extension, or for some new user to come along and take on the task of doing that, we think extensions are a huge success. While of course it's possible some MODs that may still be popular have not been converted due to abandonment, the best way to handle that is to try requesting somebody create or take over that MOD as an extension.
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:17 pm

and, phpBB is a basic bulletin board software and works as it is for many, many , many users around the world.

MODs and now extensions were/are for extra things that are not needed for a bulletin board to operate.

therefore, there is no reason at all to plan a feature release around anything to do with extensions etc.


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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by david63 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:29 pm

In any event the majority of MODs would need to have been re-written for 3.1/3.2 due to the changes in core files - so it makes little difference if they are re-written as MODs or extensions.
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by warmweer » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:35 pm

Methen wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:23 pm
In my opinion I think the biggest mistake that was made when creating the extensions version was they did not get all the previous mods and templates converted over to extensions first, Then they would not have such a severe shortage of mods like they do now...
Jeezes, where is the mistake in the "extension version"?
There is no extension version, just as there is no mod version!! There is one version in which a new framework is available, namely to allow modifications beings used as an extension: implying that no more core changes are needed.

This actually simplifies the use of a modification for people who have no experience/affinity with changing core files themselves (thus reducing the number of mistakes being made).

There is nothing wrong with the extension system (except perhaps that for non-coders) making the mod is easier than transforming it to an extension, but basically that isn't a mistake, only a slight drawback.

For the record, I haven't made any extensions yet which stand a chance of being accepted but that is mostly due to not having the time and not willing to put any effort into making it compliant with standards (which does not imply that I disagree with standards being set).
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by KevC » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:44 pm

Methen wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:23 pm
Then they would not have such a severe shortage of mods like they do now...
There are over 200 extensions in the database. That doesn't look like a 'severe shortage'. Don't forget 3.0 was out for 7 years. After only a year in the field I suspect it had a similar number.

My guess is more that the things you want aren't extensions yet. That requires you to request them and hope you give someone enough information to make them.
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by Methen » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:45 pm

Marc wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:44 pm
It simply would have been impossible to convert all MODs over to extensions. For starters, those MODs were/are written by their respective owners and not the phpBB team. We've created several tools and topics that should help a lot of moving things over to the extensions system. I think most also appreciated the creation of official extensions for a few commonly requested feature sets.

If any of you have suggestions that might help with easing the transition further feel free to post them here.

One of the goals of the extensions system was to actively discourage MODs and have the authors move over to the extensions system. Therefore, having a shortage of MODs is somewhat expected. ;)
How about simply advertising for some volunteers and having a section for just that...
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by DavidIQ » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:04 pm

There are two sections for that already: Extension Requests and Extensions in Development, or those that want/need an extension and those that want to develop them.

So according to you we should have delayed 3.1 for another 5-7 years, the approximate amount of time it took to get so many MODs, while the number of extensions lined up with the number of MODs all for a product that would not be even released yet. This is a completely unrealistic and absurd notion that we would have never even thought of or discussed.

Sufficient direction and examples were provided in order to give extension developers a start and the Extensions in Development Forum was available before the release. If I was to do anything different it might have been to provide the documentation a little sooner, although we already have it.
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by sakm » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:54 pm

I must admit it is rather frustrating when a new update/upgrade is available and you can't upgrade until the extension author updates their extension

But this is something you get used to with phpBB

I do often wonder why there isn't a larger team of developers all working together to make extensions though rather than leave one or two people to create and update them

There is lots of knowledgeable people on here and everyone working together on extensions would maybe see more released

What is more frustrating for me is styles! there doesn't seem as much in the way of developers for styles as there is for extensions and I have found myself using a style that seems to lack support and I am now left wondering if it will be updated for 3.2 which is just more of an impact on my users having to change them to a different style again

But what will be will be there is not a lot anyone can do about it especially since everyone is a volunteer and they all do a cracking job as it is

You never know with the introduction of VigLink things may change in the future with maybe paid help being available

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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by AmigoJack » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:06 pm

Methen wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:23 pm
the biggest mistake that was made when creating the extensions version was they did not get all the previous mods and templates converted over to extensions first, Then they would not have such a severe shortage of mods like they do now...
Let me give you a counter example:
The biggest mistake that was made when creating the Playstation version 3 was they did not get all the previous games and controllers converted over first, then they would not have such a severe shortage of games like they do now
...or...
The biggest mistake that was made when creating the Windows version 95 version was they did not get all the previous programs and drivers converted (from 16bit to 32bit) over first, then they would not have such a severe shortage of programs like they do now
...or...
The biggest mistake that was made when creating HDMI was they did not get all the previous movies and series converted over first, then they would not have such a severe shortage of HD stuff like they do now
Ask a mathematician and he'll show you two curves of initial host release (the board, the hardware...) and client arsenal being ready for the launch (the addons, the software...) with their costs and pay off, meeting somewhere. New things always come with limited things to add - and phpBB is no exception. Or did you buy a smartphone that had all apps available right from the start, so that no new one was ever added?


sakm wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:54 pm
why there isn't a larger team of developers all working together to make extensions though rather than leave one or two people to create and update them
Why not you? I tell you: for the very same reasons.

Almost nobody likes to adopt code, let alone from multiple projects. For countless reasons, like unreadable/uncommented/incompatible/questionable code, undocumented concepts, bizarre constructs, cumbersome maintenance and whatnot.

When I gave MOD instructions I never intended to maintain them. I was subscribed to the topic, so if there'd be a problem after some time then someone could reply and I could react (phpbb.com's decision to lock those forums on each major version jump may not be the wisest decision). But feeling responsible to care for that years later when there's only little to adapt but rather everything has to be rewritten from scratch and I gave everything for free? No.
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by sakm » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:27 pm

AmigoJack wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:06 pm
sakm wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:54 pm
why there isn't a larger team of developers all working together to make extensions though rather than leave one or two people to create and update them
Why not you?
Because I don't have the knowledge :lol:
AmigoJack wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:06 pm
Almost nobody likes to adopt code, let alone from multiple projects. For countless reasons, like unreadable/uncommented/incompatible/questionable code, undocumented concepts, bizarre constructs, cumbersome maintenance and whatnot.

When I gave MOD instructions I never intended to maintain them. I was subscribed to the topic, so if there'd be a problem after some time then someone could reply and I could react (phpbb.com's decision to lock those forums on each major version jump may not be the wisest decision). But feeling responsible to care for that years later when there's only little to adapt but rather everything has to be rewritten from scratch and I gave everything for free? No.
I see where you are coming from but there must be a way that pretty much anyone could take over if changes need to be made :?

after all the extensions would still need to be validated

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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by david63 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:30 pm

sakm wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:27 pm
there must be a way that pretty much anyone could take over if changes need to be made
There is. If an extension is not being actively supported/maintained then you can either fork the project in Github or ask the Extensions team if you can take over the extension.
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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by sakm » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:41 pm

david63 wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:30 pm
sakm wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:27 pm
there must be a way that pretty much anyone could take over if changes need to be made
There is. If an extension is not being actively supported/maintained then you can either fork the project in Github or ask the Extensions team if you can take over the extension.
But the point I am making is not many people take them on or new project on due to usually time but if there was say an area where developers could work together and help each other you could say have 10 developers working together on one project.

This would bring developers together and bring extensions to phpBB and making phpBB better than it already is

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Re: Where Phpbb screwed up when they came out with the extension vesion

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:44 pm

that sounds wonderful but in realtity it just aint gonna happen.


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