Updating phpBB via the Automatic Update option

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david63
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Updating phpBB via the Automatic Update option

Post by david63 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:02 am

... why are we still persisting with the "auto update" option? - it causes more problems than it solves, most times it does not work and the whole ethos of phpBB since 3.1 has been that there are no core code changes.

In fact all the support staff recommend that it is not used and that the file replacement method is the preferred way to update.

Am I missing something?
Last edited by kinerity on Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed to a more descriptive topic title.
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:56 am

I have asked this a couple of times. I think it should be removed from the admin panel as the recommended method of update.
not saying it should not be available for those that do code edits for some reason, just not the recommended method.


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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by AmigoJack » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:06 am

I figure since you two are longer here than me you also still have more hope for inconsistencies to be eliminated. :lol:

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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by Marc » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:48 pm

The recommend way of updating was actually changed with 3.2.3. You will not be able to see this until the 3.2.4 update though.

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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by JimA » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:55 pm

Like Marc said, we've actually changed this in 3.2.3, so the next version everybody will be told in the ACP that file replacement is the preferred way of updating so that will hopefully cause will problems amongst inexperienced users.

The problem I have with completely removing it is that there are many experienced users who rely on this option for updating their modified boards and we can still easily create the packages to make things a lot easier for them. I think our efforts should be focused on better informing users of which method is the best for them rather than removing features that are useful to others. ;)
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by GanstaZ » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:13 pm

Have never used that auto package & just by observing the process and support topics (a lot of those), it's buggy since 3.2 and should be removed or frozen.
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by david63 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm

JimA wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:55 pm
Like Marc said, we've actually changed this in 3.2.3, so the next version everybody will be told in the ACP that file replacement is the preferred way of updating so that will hopefully cause will problems amongst inexperienced users.

The problem I have with completely removing it is that there are many experienced users who rely on this option for updating their modified boards and we can still easily create the packages to make things a lot easier for them. I think our efforts should be focused on better informing users of which method is the best for them rather than removing features that are useful to others. ;)
Sorry Jim but I have to disagree.

As I said earlier the whole ethos since phpBB 3.1 has been that core files are not changed and changes are done either by the use of extensions and/or child styles. If there are "experienced" users who have made core changes then by definition they should be able to handle updates/upgrades.

In my opinion auto update should never have been included in 3.1, and less so in 3.2 and should be totally gone in 3.3
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by 3Di » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:05 pm

There are also different use cases, I am building a website for a restaurant located in www/root but I use phpBB as per the engine located in a sub-folder, I managed to integrate everything and I put my own files/classes into the phpBB's correct locations and I call them when needed.
I am happy using sessions, twig, symphony and what not.
I added some bits of code here and there, instead of creating extensions, for just a total of approx. 200 lines of code, why should I get crazy updating my phpBB if I have the automatic update package and I know how to use it? That package it's important and should stay there.
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by JimA » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:10 pm

david63 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm
Sorry Jim but I have to disagree.

As I said earlier the whole ethos since phpBB 3.1 has been that core files are not changed and changes are done either by the use of extensions and/or child styles. If there are "experienced" users who have made core changes then by definition they should be able to handle updates/upgrades.

In my opinion auto update should never have been included in 3.1, and less so in 3.2 and should be totally gone in 3.3
We can agree to disagree then, I suppose. :)

I don't see how us making it a lot simpler to update for some users should automatically result in it becoming a whole lot more difficult to update for other users. The use case that Marco describes is just one example of this, there are many more.
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by AmigoJack » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:27 am

JimA wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:10 pm
The use case that Marco describes is just one example of this, there are many more.
Name a few. When maintaining modified installations I never considered using phpBB's auto updater, but instead used comparison software on all files of an installation from the last and the current version - that's as robust as it can be and not bound to human mistakes. Just like David said: those being able to modify files correctly should also be able to recognize differences.
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by janus_zonstraal » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:07 pm

Someone else edit my board 5 years ago, extra pages, modules and extra tables in the database.

Running the automatic updater saved me a lot of work, so yes I'm very happy with that method.
I must say I never had problems with the automatic updater, even not when going from 3.1 to 3.2.
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by Tastenplayer » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:35 pm

I had done the first updates with the automatic updater.
For the simple reason: A friend from DE had set up the board for me and had done all updates for a long time. I didn't know too much about phpbb.
Sometime during 3.0.X I was confronted with the problem that I can do it myself in the future. But after the update with the automatic updater I had the problem that the StatistikMOD suddenly didn't work completely anymore. I had hardly any idea about MOD`s at all. :)
But since 3.0.12 always manual
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by Mick » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:11 pm

I used to use it all the time in 3.0 on my board and others, some of them very heavily modified, and it worked fine. After 3.1 I never used it again because it was no longer recommended to modify core code and the addition of extensions made it redundant in my opinion. When I see all the issues with it it seems like a good move.
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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by </Solidjeuh> » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:20 pm

I used auto update on my 3.0.x board years ago, because it was heavily modded.
There was no way to update the board if there was no "auto update" function.
Now most of us don't need that anymore since phpBB moved over to extensions.
But I don't think phpBB should drop this function... some users still need it.

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Re: The Question Has to Be Asked ...

Post by Ger » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:26 am

JimA wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:10 pm
The use case that Marco describes is just one example of this, there are many more.
That's not very specific of course. And actually, I think nobody really knows.

I guess the best approach would be to actually measure the amount of downloads for the automatic update package against the full package. Once the vast majority of users updates with the file replacement method, the automatic update package might be removed to reduce the amount of code that needs to be maintained. Not for a 3.2.* version though since I'd consider it a major change. So 3.3.0 or 3.4.0 should be chosen for dropping this.
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