All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by AmigoJack » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:01 am

Well, I see the point that average users installing extensions don't overview which setttings those add where, so having all them (again) collected in their own place is at least an advantage. Wouln't work for extensions which augment existing settings, tho.

Ideally settings that aren't (fully) original (anymore) could have some kind of indicator (i.e. other background color), so users can easily distinguish core from extension settings.
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by canonknipser » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:09 am

Technically extension developers have at least two possibilities to place settings in the acp:
  • Hook into a template event - there are "some" position where you can place the settings -> https://wiki.phpbb.com/Event_List#ACP_Template_Events
  • Create a new acp module and add this to a category of you liking - which can be a existing one (most common is ACP_CAT_DOT_MODS -> "Extensions" tab) or a complete new one (giving a new tab if it has no parent) and add your settings there.
I agree for the missing overview of average users, but this is also very often because of not reading documentation provided by the extension authors. I see that some documentation maybe missing or is misleading, too.
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by HiFiKabin » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:43 am

If people actually read the documentation that each extension is supplied with then they would know what extension's settings location is.

For example I attach screenshots (with arrows if needed) to point out where you need to go to find the settings.

Having the settings in more than one place is a bad idea, adds more work to the extension developer and validation team, and is not of any real benefit to the end user.

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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by potku » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:50 am

There are always three sides to extensions: developers, admins, and users. The last group may not apply here, but it is good to hear from the first two.

I have actually thought about this myself in the past. I have never voiced it, because I am humble before the work all the EXT developers do. But I have thought about it.

If you have a lot of EXTs, then you may not always remember where the settings for each EXT are unless they can be found under EXT tab. Then, of course, you go back to the documentation or maybe more often to topic for that EXT. But that takes a lot more time - not that I am complaining, just stating a fact.

Mind you, this is a view of point from an admin. I am sure there are reasons why many EXTs don't add anything under the EXT tab but somewhere else. Is the reason that it would require extra work?
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by david63 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:15 am

potku wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:50 am
I am sure there are reasons why many EXTs don't add anything under the EXT tab but somewhere else. Is the reason that it would require extra work?
There is no more work/effort required to put an extension's settings on, say, the Maintenance tab than on the Extensions tab - it is just that in some cases it is more logical. Take, for example, the Auto Groups extension - that goes on the "Users & Groups" tab as that is logically where it belongs. Also where an extension adds an additional setting to an existing set of settings, such as additional settings for a CPF, then that would involve considerable extra work - if it was even possible.
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by canonknipser » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:22 am

potku wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:50 am
Is the reason that it would require extra work?
There may be several reasons.
I pick up again the example of adding a special setting to change a forum's behaviour, eg. adding a forum image.
You certainly can add a special page in the ext tab. There you can
  1. choose your forum
  2. change the forum image
  3. save the setting for the forum
But:
This would re-invent the wheel, because (1) and (3) already exist on the forum settings page in the acp (which is not only the little work in the front end, but a lot of work in the back end, like reading the database tables, verify data, write back etc.) And if something changes in forum reading process, you need to re-implement it in your extension as well.
So, implementing only (2) on the existing forums settings page is the the more logical way to do (in my opinion).


And I believe the average board administrator expects a forum image to be changed in the forum section of the acp, where all other forum settings are handled, and not in the extension tab.

Thing about having no coffee maker in your house. You buy one now. What would the logical place to put it? In a separate room for "expanding your household equipment" (most common called "garage") together with the new TV, the new rowing machine, the litter for the cats (feel free to think about other things ...) or in the already existing kitchen?
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by mrgoldy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:15 pm

I don’t agree with putting all settings under the ‘Extensions’ tab in the ACP.

What I do agree with is something that AmigoJack said, is that ‘new settings’ could stand out. Otherwise they might easily be overlooked.

However, I feel that it is the job of extension developers to properly note what is added. Which most of us already do, and some admins fail to read.

Something else, a thought that was playing through my mind the other day, was that there could/should be an ‘extension details’ button in the extension list (customise > manage extensions), which lists all/some of the changes an extension adds. Which would mean ‘reading’ a couple of the extension files.

For example it could look like this:
This extension adds 2 new routes:
- /route1
- /route2
This extension adds one new modules
- /acp/extensions/something
This extension adds these permission
- ...
This extension adds something to these control panels
- ...

All with links to the corresponding places.
This would make it so that an admin knows what an extension does.
Downpoint would be that it is quite possibly not complete as ‘reading the code’ can only obtain so many things. So admins might see it as a complete list while it likely is not.

So not to place things differently, but to make it ‘clearer’ (is that a word?) what and where they are.

Just a/my thought.
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:18 am

instead of adding that info to the extension list, you could just add a bit of info about where the settings are.

under details it could just say, settings for this extension are under the users and groups tab. or something simple.

as we all know, nobody reads the documentation before they start clicking buttons.

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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by canonknipser » Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:57 am

Robert, I already put that information on the download page , together with some image. Many other ext developers do the same, but
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:18 am
as we all know, nobody reads the documentation before they start clicking buttons.
mrgoldy wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:15 pm
and some admins fail to read.
HiFiKabin wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:43 am
If people actually read the documentation that each extension is supplied with then they would know what extension's settings location is.
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by david63 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:46 am

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:18 am
under details it could just say, settings for this extension are under the users and groups tab. or something simple.
Unfortunately composer.json has a strict format so just adding something else to that file would not work - however there is a keyword "readme" where an extension developer can put a link to a page with such details on it.

The one major problem with adding any information at this stage is that of translation as composer.json does not support multi languages.

Personally I am not sure about the colour highlighting as it could become messy over time.

In any case is this really such a problem - we have had extensions for the last four and a half years and this has never been raised before as being a problem. Normally if someone cannot find a setting they ask in the support topic for the extension.
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by potku » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:36 am

canonknipser wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:22 am
Thing about having no coffee maker in your house. You buy one now. What would the logical place to put it? In a separate room for "expanding your household equipment" (most common called "garage") together with the new TV, the new rowing machine, the litter for the cats (feel free to think about other things ...) or in the already existing kitchen?
:lol:

This is not a problem, like David implied. It's just a thought. WordPress has the same issue: some plugins are easily found in the admin panel, some are not. It would, however, be much, much easier if all the plugins were in the same place. That is, though, a short road to what someone in this topic sarcastically said about all the phpBB settings being under just one tab.

This will never realize, but I will vote it up. In my 15 years here, it is kind of reassuring seeing some things remain the same. :)

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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by Toxyy » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:47 pm

I will admit, and this is especially true after revisiting some months after, but I'm unsure of how many settings a particular extension has. Usually I rely on the extensions tab or common sense, usually other settings are permissions, or board settings.
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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by deepndark » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:08 pm

david63 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:05 pm
deepndark wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:57 pm
An good idea is always worth some work.
Agreed - but this is not a good idea, in my opinion
But it would be useful for all the noobs, that's pretty much like 100% a fact.

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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:31 pm

no, it is 100% your opinion. I may agree with you that is would be easier in some situations, but that is also, my opinion not 100% fact.


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Re: All the extensions should have their settings under the customization tab

Post by deepndark » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:08 pm

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:31 pm
no, it is 100% your opinion. I may agree with you that is would be easier in some situations, but that is also, my opinion not 100% fact.


robert
It's pretty logical that if all the possible places for the extension settings are under the extension tab, you will always easily find them.

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