What is the Future of phpBB?

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thecoalman
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by thecoalman »

david63 wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:42 pm Sorry, but none of that has any bearing on the subject of this topic.
Surely it does because the future of phpBB is dependent on the interest in using forum software in general. As that interest declines so does the software.

That said IMO there is lot of things we can be doing better to at least keep up with competing software. You need to cater to the needs of both users and admins, within reason of course. I'll throw out a simple example, resizing avatars. The basic php functions for this were available since 2007 and would only require a few lines of code to implement. If you were using Imagick I think it was a few characters. This may seem trivial but it's numerous details like it which make great software.
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by Ger »

david63 wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:49 pm
warmweer wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:00 pm Every few months?
From what I've noticed, there's a validation spurt every month. This year's December may prove to be a rare break of that streak but I don't consider that particularly surprising (nor worrying).
Currently there is at least one extension that has been in the queue for 70 days and the average for the 16 that are in the queue is 43 days. That is one of the reasons why extension developers are leaving.
Very true. This is, along with the very opinionated validation feedback is the main reason I stopped submitting extensions for validation.
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by DavidIQ »

Ger wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:15 am
david63 wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:49 pm That is one of the reasons why extension developers are leaving.
Very true. This is, along with the very opinionated validation feedback is the main reason I stopped submitting extensions for validation.
Well since we're just sharing personal opinions: very few people like their code to be reviewed, especially by a group of strangers, but blaming the process for having your code checked and then rejected for not following guidelines or just being wrong/broken/not working is basically not taking responsibility for the code you wrote. This is then expressed through outrage at the volunteer validators and the process (including how long it takes) and sometimes even followed by a rage-quit.
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by Ger »

DavidIQ wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:34 pm Well since we're just sharing personal opinions: very few people like their code to be reviewed, especially by a group of strangers, but blaming the process for having your code checked and then rejected for not following guidelines or just being wrong/broken/not working is basically not taking responsibility for the code you wrote. This is then expressed through outrage at the volunteer validators and the process (including how long it takes) and sometimes even followed by a rage-quit.

I surely not hope you talking about me here... I've never raged against any of you.

But yeah, my last contribution was rejected after a blazing 7 weeks solely for empty lines, tabs/spaces, etc. Basically because my editorconfig file was set for my company guidelines instead of phpBB.
Everything worked as it should, but apparently coding style is more important than anything.

phpBB could have helpt by providing an editorconfig to work with or simply reformat at submission. Instead they choose to let contributors wait for many weeks and reject because of such reasons.

This isn't something new. Getting your stuff validated is a painstaking process here. Of responses would be swift it would be fine, but this way every motivation is killed long before things are validated.

Now I'm sure there are lots of reasons and excuses for all this, but the bottom line is this is the main reason I've stopped submitting my extensions here. That's feedback several very experienced people are giving you. People who have dedicated many hours over lots of years to phpBB. Instead of debating that and implying it's their fault, you could consider listening and doing something with the feedback.
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by DavidIQ »

We do listen to feedback and appreciate it. However you seem to have already made a decision that you're no longer going to be submitting your extensions because you didn't like how long it took to get review feedback back, that it took several weeks, that we give "very opinionated validation feedback". So while your feedback is great it seems to be given after the fact, unless there is somewhere you've mentioned this that I've missed.

To be honest you're one of the first actually experienced extension developers I've seen give any solid feedback
that I can remember, so thanks.
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by david63 »

DavidIQ wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:51 pm So while your feedback is great it seems to be given after the fact,
Isn't that the definition of feedback, that it is "given after the fact" - not really possible to give feedback before the event!
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by DavidIQ »

david63 wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:00 pm
DavidIQ wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:51 pm So while your feedback is great it seems to be given after the fact,
Isn't that the definition of feedback, that it is "given after the fact" - not really possible to give feedback before the event!
After he has made the decision to no longer submit extensions for validation. Thanks for the correction ;)
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by DavidIQ »

Ger wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:00 am [...]
you could consider listening and doing something with the feedback.
Started this for that purpose: viewtopic.php?f=461&t=2610516
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by MattF »

Ger wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:00 amphpBB could have helpt by providing an editorconfig to work with or simply reformat at submission.
phpBB does provide an editorconfig file (since 2014).

https://github.com/phpbb/phpbb/blob/3.3.x/.editorconfig
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by Ger »

MattF wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:18 pm
Ger wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:00 amphpBB could have helpt by providing an editorconfig to work with or simply reformat at submission.
phpBB does provide an editorconfig file (since 2014).

https://github.com/phpbb/phpbb/blob/3.3.x/.editorconfig
Not really satisfying for extensions coding standards, is it?
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by DavidIQ »

Ger wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:12 pm
MattF wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:18 pm

phpBB does provide an editorconfig file (since 2014).

https://github.com/phpbb/phpbb/blob/3.3.x/.editorconfig
Not really satisfying for extensions coding standards, is it?
Just go be clear to anyone reading this: we don't deny extensions solely on coding guidelines issues, which includes spacing, unless it's so bad we can't read the code. So while this would be nice, it doesn't prevent the actual reason for a denial.
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by Ger »

Than that has changed in the past 3 years
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by testingmro »

Hello!
I`m just random folk, looking where to post my case. I found this one topic. Seems legit.
Will try to bullet point.

1. Where people are going:
● People are going away to FB because they are using mobiles. FB provides them with quick and easy online interaction. (phpBB does not provide this)
● People are moving away to instant messaging (Signal, WA) where they have instant contact in their group (integration aspect). (phpBB does not provide this)

2. What is phpBB better for:
● FB/Signal/WA - are great for quick communication and integration, but not for AGREGATING AND STORING KNOWLEDGE.
● And vice versa. Forums are the only place to store structured knowledge that needs to be preserved but they don't have the quick communication and integration functionality that FB/Signal/WA offers.

3. phpBB although it can be used on mobile is not nice and pleasant
As you can see from the following post.... - no further comment needed here
If we want people to stay with phpBB it has to be usable on mobiles
Marshalrusty wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:28 am but will look harder tomorrow when not on my phone.

Conclusion:
● I wanted to write a post about TapaTalk (called later TT) and how You should replace it with your own solution. This is how I ended up here. Don't waste time explaining why there is no TT support because it's obvious. I do serious business and consalting in life and I give my perspective on topics here.

● I write from the experience of the community I look after.
1. this community had only a forum
2. then FB
3. then Groups on Signal and WA
4. finally as a defense against the outflow of users - TT....
(funny right?, altually to give people the possibility of dynamic and simple access to the forum, you need to install TT on it - is this business
correct?). All the time with the drain from point 1 to 2,3. FB is not the problem, the problem is instant messaging and poor usability on mobiles.

● A substitute for instant messaging is mchat, but to use it again you have to log in through www... so not good...

If we want phpBB to continue to grow and regain market share, it simply needs to be enhanced with options that this market needs and is looking for. What they are - I wrote above.

● create your own SIMPLE forum reader for Android / iOS - so that you don't have to use TT for easy access to forum content.
● created forum reader should have integrated live Chat - preferably with possibility of integration with mChat (or similar) in order to embed it also in the forum with possibility of accessing the same pool of people to the same chat both from the reader on android/iOS and via www. Components are ready, you can use open source protocols.
● Nobody can do it better than you....

What you gain, I will not elaborate.
As you write yourself, you have settled on your laurels, because most of the problems are solved. If you want the forums to continue to attract people, you need to get out of your comfort zone and take on new challenges by adding features that people need.

A native mobile application (forum reader) made by phpBB community, with livechat integrated into the web version and the application.
People will promote it themselves...
I keep my fingers crossed for you and the community :-)
@Dawid63, thanks for starting such an important topic.
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by tojag »

testingmro wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:03 am
If we want phpBB to continue to grow and regain market share, it simply needs to be enhanced with options that this market needs and is looking for. What they are - I wrote above.

● create your own SIMPLE forum reader for Android / iOS - so that you don't have to use TT for easy access to forum content.
● created forum reader should have integrated live Chat - preferably with possibility of integration with mChat (or similar) in order to embed it also in the forum with possibility of accessing the same pool of people to the same chat both from the reader on android/iOS and via www. Components are ready, you can use open source protocols.
● Nobody can do it better than you....
I like it! (but... where is the like ikon/kudos on this board?)

Few years ago...
tojag wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:58 am It is known that the forum will exist if there are users and new posts. Then, ads can be displayed that will keep the forum alive. Because people now prefer applications on the phone more than opening a browser, we may need a new idea. We need a universal application for Android and iOS, based on GPL or OpenSource, similar to TapTalk, but allowing the user to connect only their own forum. Only then will the income from ads in this application keep the forum alive and not on the basis of the TapTalk account.
It's a big undertaking. We would need a team of people who know how to program applications and watch over its development.
But it's probably a far-fetched idea :)

Maybe a kind of browser that only displays the owner's forum and nothing more? Of course, any external link would then open an external browser.
I wrote on this forum in another topic:
PWA (Progressive Web Apps) websites are a much more interesting thing, thanks to which mobile browsers treat it as an application.
https://developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps/
For the owners of phpbb sites, PWA would be an interesting option because the forum would be like an independent application. I think it can go in this direction because now Chrome, FF, Opera support it. But this is a completely different topic than AMP.
tojag wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:42 pm ... Why FB or Inst is so popular? Because their easy to use. See how many forum applications in the google play store, eg. XDA, AndroidForum, Nielsen, OnePlus, Xiaomi, and more, more...
Why ForumApp is better than website on the smartphone?
Because it can start automatically when you turn on your smartphone and you're already logged in - the website does not.
Because the application can have access to the functions of the smartphone, e.g. notifications and you immediately know what's new in your topics - the website does not.
Because you can use sharing your phone resources like photos, files, links etc. directly into your forum application with one click Share It. - the website does not have such possibilities.
And probably something more....
Sometime I have the impression that the development of the phpbb has come to a complete halt :(
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Re: What is the Future of phpBB?

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

don't fix it if it aint broke. :lol:

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