Augment URLs with Search constraints?

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KevC
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by KevC »

It's worth remembering that most admins are not technically minded. They've set the board up purely for people to discuss the subject in mind. They're generally unlikely to want to make major changes to the search engine because one user wants a much more granular way of looking for things. They have to consider the benefits to everyone and if they're all happy with it as it is, nothing will change.
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by wmorg »

KevC wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:25 pm They have to consider the benefits to everyone and if they're all happy with it as it is, nothing will change.

That's the question: How many people are happy with it as it is?.

Here's one that doesn't.

I think that the current phpBB search system can clearly be improved and often does not give me what I am looking for, when I think that is possible.

In another topic I have made my contributions through SQL, and in that way I clearly obtain better results, always from my point of view.
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by KevC »

wmorg wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:38 pm That's the question: How many people are happy with it as it is?.
In 16+ years of running forums with thousands of members, no one has ever asked me a single thing about improving or changing the search options.
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by david63 »

wmorg wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:38 pm I think that the current phpBB search system can clearly be improved and often does not give me what I am looking for, when I think that is possible.
If you believe that you can improve the current phpBB search then the answer is simple - create a PR for your changes
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by wmorg »

david63 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:45 pm If you believe that you can improve the current phpBB search then the answer is simple - create a PR for your changes

What is a "PR", please?.
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by david63 »

wmorg wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:21 pm What is a "PR", please?.
Pull request
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

KevC wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:44 pmIn 16+ years of running forums with thousands of members, no one has ever asked me a single thing about improving or changing the search options.
Well, KevC, this is your lucky day.
I am happy to pose to you the first question about improving or changing the search options, in your sixteen years of running forums with thousands of members.

How can the search options, and implicitly their implementation (otherwise why bother with search options) be improved so that they do what they say they will do?


My understanding of Search and Advanced Search using the phpBB search engine, is that a string of words enclosed in double quotes should be used to match that [exact] phrase within posts, or perhaps, within Topic Titles.
I have this day tried that on a specific phpBB site, and I just can’t get phpBB Advanced Search to treat my submitted search string as a phrase.
I submit the results of my experiment below in the hopes that you can tell me or better yet, show me where I have misunderstood how the phoBB Advanced Search works.

Example of a failed search.
phpBB Search engine: https://forum.librivox.org/search.php

Goal: Locate all posts that discuss the phrase “apply noise reduction”; not the words “apply” and “noise” and “reduction”, but the three words strung together as shown, a string of twenty-one characters.
phpBB_052.png
I key in the phrase surrounded by double-quotes. My understanding is that a string enclosed in double-quotes requires a case-insensitive match against exactly that string
The generated search URL is

Code: Select all

 https://forum.librivox.org/search.php?keywords=%22apply+noise+reduction%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
phpBB_053.png
The search delivers 227 matches. We shall assume that this figure is correct. Five pages of Topics (Threads) are available..
By the time you read this the figures will have changed, but not significantly.

The first listed topic has 13 pages, the next 34. I do not want to wade through 34 pages of posts looking for my phrase. So I choose three recent topics titled “One-minute test”. These topics occupy just one page each, and so will be easy for us to examine. (New LibriVox members who want to be Readers (to record audio tracks) are required to perform and submit a short test on their hardware and software installation. This is not a voice test, just recording settings.)

(1) https://forum.librivox.org/viewtopic.ph ... duction%22 January 31st, 2022, There are four posts in this thread with three occurrences of the word “noise”, but no occurrence of the phrase “apply noise reduction”
Either the phpBB Advanced Search has failed or I have misunderstood the concept of using a string enclosed in double-quotes.

(2) https://forum.librivox.org/viewtopic.ph ... duction%22 January 30th, 2022. There are four posts in this thread with three occurrences of the word “noise”, but no occurrence of the phrase “apply noise reduction”
Either the phpBB Advanced Search has failed or I have misunderstood the concept of using a string enclosed in double-quotes.

(3) https://forum.librivox.org/viewtopic.ph ... duction%22 January 30th, 2022. There are five posts in this thread with six original occurrences of the word “noise”, but no occurrence of the phrase “apply noise reduction”
Either the phpBB Advanced Search has failed or I have misunderstood the concept of using a string enclosed in double-quotes.
Back on the phpBB site:-

(4) SQL for Forum Users Jan 16, 2022
Example: querying the phrase "Search here not working" versus the keywords Search here not working. The former behaves correctly, as the whole phrase must occur in that order with no other words in there. And words like not or or or and have no special meaning.
This text suggests to me that my search string “apply noise reduction” should appear in the search results, that the whole phrase must occur in that order with no other words in there.

In not one of my three LibriVox search results examined above did my phrase appear. The word “apply” occurred, but not as part of the 3-word string “apply noise reduction”

(5) Exact phrase searching in 3.0.x Sep 11, 2016
“... search results display only those posts (or topics) which have the phrase you searched for. The highlighting in those displayed posts however is flawed. ...”
My experience using phpBB Advanced Search on the LibriVox site suggests that on Wednesday, February 09, 2022, none of my three searches turned up the phrase in the delivered pages.

I am subscribed to six phpBB sites, and so I can provide examples of failures of the Advanced Search on those six phpBB sites, to deliver what I understand it should deliver, in terms of the search options.
If my understanding is wrong, please draw on your sixteen years of experience to point out to me how I should search for an [exact] phrase within the phpBB search facilities.

I did post something related to advanced search, but you may have missed my post.
Here is the URL to the topic.

Code: Select all

https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2612501
Given your lengthy and vast experience with users, I would welcome your comments in my suggestions.

With respect
Chris Greaves
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KevC
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by KevC »

ChrisGreaves wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:55 pm Given your lengthy and vast experience with users, I would welcome your comments in my suggestions.
I suspect....... they don't care.
They'll do a simple search, if they find what they want, great. If they don't, they'll just start a new topic and ask.
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by ChrisGreaves »

KevC wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:08 pm
ChrisGreaves wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:55 pm Given your lengthy and vast experience with users, I would welcome your comments in my suggestions.
I suspect....... they don't care.
They'll do a simple search, if they find what they want, great. If they don't, they'll just start a new topic and ask.
Thanks Kev.
I see.
I made numerous suggestions and appeals for understanding in my post, and I suspect....... you don't care.

My comments and suggestions were genuine, and I believe well-founded and documented.

Well then, with your sixteen years of experience, can you suggest someone else on this site who might care to treat a serious post with the respect due to it, rather than take the careless way out by tossing off, as it were, a casual remark, in the hopes that the original request will come to another dead-end with a "couldn't care less" response.

This is not the place to get personal, but at least I am no longer curious about how, over sixteen years very few people have approached you with a question, comment, or suggestion.

I maintain my stance that the points I have made deserve serious and educated consideration.
There is something wrong, something that does not work, with phpBB search.

If phpBB site admins recommend that their members use Google Site: search instead of phpBB search, it could be that phpBB search does not work.
That being the case, it might be a good idea to drop the search functions from the phpBB software altogether.

I found it significant that phpBB search failed to operate as expected on the phpBB site that hosts a forum about - phpBB.

Your flip-off comment "They'll do a simple search, if they find what they want, great. If they don't, they'll just start a new topic and ask." leaves you blind to the fact that the data stored on the web site(s), the wisdom of ages (or at least, sixteen years) is effectively lost to sight. After all, if it can't be found, it is effectively not there.
Do you agree?


With respect.
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by warmweer »

ChrisGreaves wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:47 pm ...
My comments and suggestions were genuine, and I believe well-founded and documented.
I think they are, and I agree that an improvement of the search function would have its merits.
However, to me it's no priority as +apply +noise +reduction gives an "acceptable" result because all three words have to be present).
Spelling is freeware, which means you can use it for free.
On the other hand, it is not open source, which means you cannot change it or publish it in a modified form.


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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by AmigoJack »

Well, it works here as expected: That most people (including developers) don't care to such a level that they don't even care about failures can be seen by the long and bad ride I took with the ticket PHPBB3-13958 search phrase interprets operator words.
  • "The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly. ... We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this." Affin, 2018-11-20
  • "But this shit is not here for you. You can follow with your. Maybe the question, instead, was for you, who know, so you shoved us how you are." axe70, 2020-10-10
  • "My reaction is not to everyone, especially to you." Raptiye, 2021-02-28
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by Brf »

ChrisGreaves wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:55 pm My understanding of Search and Advanced Search using the phpBB search engine, is that a string of words enclosed in double quotes should be used to match that [exact] phrase within posts, or perhaps, within Topic Titles.
PhpBB does not have "phrase" searching, only "word" searching, at least with the Native search index.

There is nothing in the documentation for search, https://www.phpbb.com/support/docs/en/3 ... _advanced/ , that indicates you can use double quotes to enclose phrases.
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by AmigoJack »

Brf wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:40 pmThere is nothing in the documentation for search, https://www.phpbb.com/support/docs/en/3 ... _advanced/ , that indicates you can use double quotes to enclose phrases.
That part of the documentation was the same since 3.0 and although being 12+ years old it still misses to explain that when not using the native index phrases are expected and interpreted. Or more lazily: either the docs are bugged or this board installation is, since they don't adhere to the docs, as per my proving example links.
  • "The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly. ... We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this." Affin, 2018-11-20
  • "But this shit is not here for you. You can follow with your. Maybe the question, instead, was for you, who know, so you shoved us how you are." axe70, 2020-10-10
  • "My reaction is not to everyone, especially to you." Raptiye, 2021-02-28
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by KevC »

ChrisGreaves wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:47 pm Your flip-off comment "They'll do a simple search, if they find what they want, great. If they don't, they'll just start a new topic and ask." leaves you blind to the fact that the data stored on the web site(s), the wisdom of ages (or at least, sixteen years) is effectively lost to sight. After all, if it can't be found, it is effectively not there.
Do you agree?
I didn't rubbish your work or theories.
I was just summising what the users do. They don't care what the software is, or how it works. They come to a forum to read, post and search. If they don't find what they want, they post about it. That's what they do.
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Re: Augment URLs with Search constraints?

Post by Brf »

AmigoJack wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:07 pm this board installation is, since they don't adhere to the docs, as per my proving example links.
This board uses Sphinx for search, not the vanilla search.
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