Congratulations on RC7 Release!

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Stallyon
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Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by Stallyon » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:34 am

Dejavu, but you still deserve a congrats on finiding and fixing the BBCode bug so quickly! Congrats to all those in the project for yet another step towards Gold!
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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by calebrw » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:44 am

I wholeheartedly agree. The more work they do now on fixing bugs and other issues, the less they need to do later. That means more time spent on MODs (depending on who it is), feature additions, support, etc.

Good Luck going Gold.
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Patrick W.
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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by Patrick W. » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:57 am

Humm....has it even been 12 hours?

Congratz ^^
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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by PCGUY112887 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:11 am

I'm sorry but what in the heck is the dev team doing? I love phpBB but...

-They make major code changes when it's already in RC5. Sure the changes are for the better, but why not have a security audit back in the beta? I mean no one from the phpBB team thought to have an outside company do a full security audit on the entire package?

-RC6 is released with stupid obvious bugs. Was RC6 even tested? Seems like there would be a set list of things to do to test most features of the forum to ensure they work that would happen right before a new RC is announced.

-RC7 is released to fix a few tiny issues, but when there were larger issues back in the earlier RC's, it was not fixed till the next RC. Why the new RC now just for this? It's just causing confusion.

-Mod authors and Style authors are going to have a fit at all of these changes when more see the RC6/7 release. There are so many great mods started in the Dev forum, as well as Styles, and now they all must be changed! They were busy enough trying to get their code bug-free and secure, now style authors have to change a metric shitload of lines to make it compatible with RC7.

A feature freeze is aimed to prevent this type of thing happening, otherwise we'll be in RC forever. I want a secure, stable phpbb 3 gold as much as the next guy but stop making so many changes! The things that are being done now should have been done way back in the beta.

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Stallyon
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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by Stallyon » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:45 am

PCGUY112887 wrote:-RC7 is released to fix a few tiny issues, but when there were larger issues back in the earlier RC's, it was not fixed till the next RC. Why the new RC now just for this? It's just causing confusion.
Acyd Burn wrote:This release fixes some critical issues which arised with the recently released Release Candidate 6, basically fixing some bbcode problems as well as missing form tokens.
Critical is hardly a few "tiny issues". I'm glad they are done now. Who cares what RC number we get to? Would you rather they went Gold full of bugs? I guess due to extended hours, extreme stress and working their butts off for undeserving customers, they too may let mistakes slip through now and then. Notice the grammatical errors in his post too? He's probably worked hours and hours beforehand to get it fixed and is beyond drained...

Have some compassion, people.
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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by jasonf1 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:00 am

PCGUY112887 wrote:I'm sorry but what in the heck is the dev team doing? I love phpBB but...

-They make major code changes when it's already in RC5. Sure the changes are for the better, but why not have a security audit back in the beta? I mean no one from the phpBB team thought to have an outside company do a full security audit on the entire package?
It's as broad as it is long, you know? Getting from point A to point B is going to take about the same amount of time and effort, no matter if a security audit was performed during Beta, or if it were peformed a few weeks ago.

When it's your money being spent on security audits, and when you start spending your own free time to help develop phpBB3, then I think you have the right to criticize the process. Until then, why not try being a little grateful to the group of people who are spending their own free time (and money) to make sure this is a safe and quality product?

IMO, your criticism is unwarranted and disrespectful to the hard work that has been done here.

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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by PCGUY112887 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:18 am

I am fairly sure there is no free time and money being spent here, all of the profits from this site must go somewhere.

I love the dev team, however recent practices have been a bit odd which is why I question.
Critical is hardly a few "tiny issues".
The issues resolved in RC7 are tiny compared to issues found in earlier RC versions, and those issues didn't demand a sudden RC jump to fix JUST those.

As I said before I am glad the issues are fixed, however if major changes keep happening then the bugtracker will never stop being busy. More big changes = more RC's = more headaches for everyone. It's like chasing your tail...

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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by jasonf1 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:41 am

PCGUY112887 wrote:I am fairly sure there is no free time and money being spent here, all of the profits from this site must go somewhere.
I can't imagine there are masses of webmasters and forum hosts digging into their coffers to donate to the development of phpBB3....what little is donated would be hardly enough to make a living on if you're one of the dev team. The idea of there being a "profit" is moot.
PCGUY112887 wrote:As I said before I am glad the issues are fixed, however if major changes keep happening then the bugtracker will never stop being busy. More big changes = more RC's = more headaches for everyone. It's like chasing your tail...
I believe this is why, on the download page, it says, "Download Unstable Release"....the keyword here is "unstable". This means things can change and will change.

I think it's great all the mod coders are sharing their work here, and it is unfortunate that some of them will have to make changes to their mods, but no one told them to start writing mods .... again, we go back to the word "unstable". They willingly grabbed the horns of this bull when they started coding their mods and now they have to go wherever the bull takes them.

"It will be finished when it gets finished"....and it will be well worth the wait.
Last edited by jasonf1 on Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Stallyon
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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by Stallyon » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:42 am

[sarcasm="high"]Yes, they should have done the security audit when it was in BETA while still feature unlocked, when it would have been useless and pointless. You should always do a security audit before the software is even finished, just like they test security systems in buildings before the building is even finished being built.[/sarcasm]
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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by lysp » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:52 am

I'd have to agree with PCGUY.

A release candidate is just that.. a candidate for release. It should be stable enough for release, and it should have little-no known bugs, at least no major ones. It is by definition a final release for production to ensure no final late bugs arrive.

The RC's in this are simply additional beta versions.. after 5 beta versions one would expect to have a reasonably stable and almost-finished product, any RC's that go over 2 or 3 should be raised as a problem with the dev framework/environment. The RC2 and RC3 i would normally expect to have 4-5 bugs max.

To have a breaking change at such a late point as RC6 is beyond belief to me.

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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by Stallyon » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:03 am

Tell you what ... Why don't you go write better software since you're both so savvy to how things SHOULD work. I still think the whole team does an awesome job.
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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by PCGUY112887 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:11 am

I can't imagine there are masses of webmasters and forum hosts digging into their coffers to donate to the development of phpBB3....what little is donated would be hardly enough to make a living on if you're one of the dev team. The idea of there being a "profit" is moot.
Lets see there are donations, profit from ads on the site, profit from advertisers in various forms on the site (hosting advertisements, job listings, etc). Just those 3 combined + free hosting donated by OSUOSL + the sheer traffic of this site = plenty of profits. This may not be a full time job for every dev, however it is far from free work. People can be nice but do you think the dev's would do all of this for free? :lol:
[sarcasm="high"]Yes, they should have done the security audit when it was in BETA while still feature unlocked, when it would have been useless and pointless. You should always do a security audit before the software is even finished, just like they test security systems in buildings before the building is even finished being built.[/sarcasm]
I think you need to learn a bit more about the process of writing a program. When a program hits RC, meaning Release Canidate (meaning that even RC1 could have gone gold if no bugs were found) then all of the core development is already done. Just about everything security related should already be frozen.

A security audit of the beta right before RC1 would have uncovered all of the issues we are dealing with now. RC's are supposed to be only about bugfixing, and general bug fixing in RC stages doesn't typically open up a security hole, and if it does then changes of it being caught are high since you are focused on 1 area of code fixing a bug, you'll (typically) notice if you open up a security hole. If not, someone else will notice.

Again I must stress, I am not trying to bash the DEV's here or bash phpBB in any way, I am just trying to figure out why things are not being done the way development of a program usually goes...

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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by napy8gen » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:28 am

I agree with PCGUY112887 with every single words he said from the view of programming practice, I don't want phpBB3 Gold until its phpBB3 RC100

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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by jasonf1 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:32 am

Stallyon is right. If anyone could have planned and designed phpBB3 any better, then why didn't they join the dev team early on and do it?

It would be negligent of them to not make the necessary changes to improve security, no matter what stage of the development process phpBB3 is at. If the security audit was done during Beta then there would have still been a lot of changes that would have been made and you'd have people complaining about the changes then, too. What PCGUY is arguing is all to do with a name.... If it goes to RC20, then it doesn't matter because the time it takes to roll out a completed phpBB3 is still the same no matter if it's Beta 1 or RC 20.

Could a different team have done it differently, better, faster? Possibly, but I doubt it. I think the dev team is doing an awesome job, and they just proved they are responsible and ethical by making necessary security changes.

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Re: Congratulations on RC7 Release!

Post by wmtipton » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:52 am

GREAT JOB on RC7 everyone ! :D

I just updated all of the forums I host and it went off without a hitch.
I dont know what security problems there might have been before this 'audit', but what I do know is we were hit by hackers last weekend really hard and they trashed my shoutboxes pretty badly, but were unable to get into the forums at all, so Im not complaining at all regardless of when this audit supposedly took place.

thanks for the great software :)
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