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Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:10 pm
by ElbertF
I agree, if done right it can actually make your scripts much more efficient. Of course an AJAX chat application might bombard a server with requests, but small things like saving settings or logging in can be done without loading complete pages. In many cases you can skip the template parser, CSS, images etc., saving a lot of processing and bandwidth. It's not just "fun", it also improves the experience and is more user friendly.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:41 pm
by Kellanved
It can reduce load for pages; web applications like phpBB are a totally different story.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:22 pm
by SamG
ElbertF wrote:It's not just "fun", it also improves the experience and is more user friendly.
Agreed in the case of things you specifically mentioned. But how many times have people said, "Boy, I really don't care about the main forums being AJAX-driven, but it sure would be great if the UCP (which I visit maybe half a dozen times a year) was"? :mrgreen:

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:51 pm
by Kellanved
ElbertF wrote:I agree, if done right it can actually make your scripts much more efficient. Of course an AJAX chat application might bombard a server with requests, but small things like saving settings or logging in can be done without loading complete pages. In many cases you can skip the template parser, CSS, images etc., saving a lot of processing and bandwidth. It's not just "fun", it also improves the experience and is more user friendly.

Actually, you are mentioning very poor examples. Logging in requires a context switch, the SIDs are renewed, all keys are renewed, possibly the CSS and templates are exchanged - etc. Logging in is totally unsuited for AJAX. Confirmation on changed settings can be done easily (we have code ready to do that), but it certainly doesn't save server resources - a template with four variables is very cheap to send to the user - there is no template parsing normally. The rule of thumb is: there are no small things. Permissions, etc have to be checked just the same, the added javascript needed to accommodate AJAX enlarges all page view; also there will be more requests. The bandwidth and actual transmissions is the smallest part of rendering a page. Also : "fun" and "experience" are the same.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:16 am
by SneakySimian
Kellanved wrote:It can reduce load for pages; web applications like phpBB are a totally different story.
That's not what we are talking about though, is it? No, we are talking about AJAX itself, not its specific implementations. Note that not once did I state where or how it was to be implemented. Incidentally, I do believe the example I gave is considered a web application.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:08 am
by Highway of Life
SneakySimian wrote:I do believe the example I gave is considered a web application.
Yes, it is a web app.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:45 am
by ElbertF
Kellanved wrote:Actually, you are mentioning very poor examples.
I was talking about AJAX in general, you pretty much stated that it "increases server load" which didn't sound right. I agree there aren't many major things in phpBB where AJAX would be suitable, but tiny things like reporting posts, bookmarking or subscribing to a topic, clicking a username for details, deleting a post or even posting one (quick reply, sorry) would save resources if done right, in AJAX.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:06 am
by Kellanved
It's a moot point. A reply in AJAX would cost almost exactly the same as a reply without AJAX, but would get potentially triggered more frequently. Fetching a preview might a better scenario.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:11 am
by abble CoSa NoStrA
ajax isn't a difficult thing for accessibility?
How you can do for a person with "no javascript" in browser?

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:09 pm
by god0fgod
For people with no javascript or ajax support you can send information as usual.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:04 pm
by ElbertF
Yes, it should always be an extra layer for people that have it enabled and developers should never depend on it.
Kellanved wrote:It's a moot point. A reply in AJAX would cost almost exactly the same as a reply without AJAX, but would get potentially triggered more frequently. Fetching a preview might a better scenario.
That's a good thing, it means it's easier to use (less annoying) and more information is flowing (quality of content is another issue here). That's the point of a BB isn't it? You will save one or two page loads on every posting and other actions. It would save thousands of page loads on boards like these.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:34 pm
by Highway of Life
Yes, though saving bandwidth != saving server resources.
I agree that AJAX integration is a good idea, but it can be a bad idea if not implemented just right.

The two major benefits of using AJAX should be:
  1. Make performing tasks easier and or faster for the user
  2. Result in a lighter server load
If it does not do either of those two, then AJAX is useless.
A decrease in Bandwidth is usually always a benefit of using AJAX, so then you’re really going to look for a savings in Server resources, or something that significantly helps the user perform a task before implementing AJAX.
abble CoSa NoStrA wrote:ajax isn't a difficult thing for accessibility?
How you can do for a person with "no javascript" in browser?
Currently Javascript is not required to perform the majority of functions on phpBB3. This would not change, so if JS is disabled, they see the site as usual. If JS is enabled, they would have the ability to utilise the AJAX-powered functionality.

The biggest change that I could see in resources, both bandwidth and server load, as well as user performing tasks would be to streamline confirmation boxes.
This would not require AJAX at all (though some people view it as an AJAX feature).
That is, basically you would enable the “Are you sure you want to perform this action? (Yes|No)” in a JS alert or in-page JS box, which would confirm the action before proceeding.
Then the information contained in the “You have successfully performed X action” would be displayed on the return to page thus eliminating two steps and two page loads.

Again, this does not use AJAX, but would significantly improve the speed at which a task can be accomplished and save on bandwidth and a bit of server resources (2 fewer page loads/processing).

----oOo----
Side note, can a Moderator move this to 3.0 Discussions Forum?
Thanks!

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:47 pm
by ElbertF
Highway of Life wrote:Yes, though saving bandwidth != saving server resources.
Sure, but a page load can be both right? Posting a message would still require a database connection, but you wouldn't need to include all kinds of classes (like the template parser) which even the confirmation page needs.

Re: What about Ajax for phpbb4... AjaxBB?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:53 pm
by drathbun
Highway of Life wrote:Side note, can a Moderator move this to 3.0 Discussions Forum?
Thanks!
/me points to the Report a Post function... :-P

Moving now...