Google search console and web vitals concerns

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urzh
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Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by urzh »

I know this is being discussed in some other topics, but wanted to started a new one. I have 8 PHPBB forums using:

PHPBB v3.3.5
Default prosilver


Looks like Google Search console is starting to penalize my sites for poor Mobile and Desktop core vitals. It's not happening for all forums. One most impacted is specifically for:

CLS issue: more than 0.25 (mobile)
Poor LCP issue: longer than 4s (mobile)
CLS issue: more than 0.25 (desktop)

In the past, this seemed to be an issue in search console then disappear - then re-appear sometime later. As of the last few months, seems more and newer links are getting the LCP and CLS issue.

Google:
LCP (largest contentful paint): The amount of time to render the largest content element visible in the viewport, from when the user requests the URL. The largest element is typically an image or video, or perhaps a large block-level text element. This is important because it tells the reader that the URL is actually loading.
CLS (Cumulative Layout Shift): CLS measures the sum total of all individual layout shift scores for every unexpected layout shift that occurs during the entire lifespan of the page. The score is zero to any positive number, where zero means no shifting and the larger the number, the more layout shift on the page. This is important because having pages elements shift while a user is trying to interact with it is a bad user experience. If you can't seem to find the reason for a high value, try interacting with the page to see how that affects the score.
And...
My site status changed, but I didn't change anything
If you didn't make any changes in your site, but you see a big change in status for a lot of pages, it's possible that you had a borderline status for many pages, and some site-wide event pushed your pages over the edge: for example, your site traffic dramatically increased or the service that serves your image files experienced a latency change, either of which could slow your site down. A small, but site-wide, change might have been just enough to push a bunch of borderline Good pages into the Needs improvement category, or from Needs improvement to Poor.

Based on the timelines for my sites, I believe it may correlate to PHPBB 3.3.5 upgrade. I can't say for sure though. But the forums here are showing more and more are also facing the same issue recently it seems so could it be something with the latest update?

Is there anything in ACP load settings I could tweak to improve the LCP and CLS scores?
I already have GZIP compression enabled.
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janus_zonstraal
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by janus_zonstraal »

a link to your board can help.
Sorry! My English is bat ;) !!!
urzh
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by urzh »

janus_zonstraal wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:49 pm a link to your board can help.
I've done something recommended by another user in another topic to see if it fixes LCP and CLS issues. I'll report back in a week or so.
urzh
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by urzh »

The fix for my boards for everything I mentioned is below. I realize after the last PHPBB update it overwrote my changes which I had made to fix this originally. For anyone else, Google reported passed validations on 3k links in a week.


In styles/prosilver/theme/common.css

Add the following to the bottom. I also purge cache. Then start your validation on your sites in Google Search Console.

Code: Select all

@media (max-width: 800px) {
	.linklist .rightside > a > span {
		display: none;
	}
}
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thecoalman
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by thecoalman »

urzh wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:04 pm Add the following to the bottom. I also purge cache.
Purging phpBB's cache does not affect CSS files cached by the browser/SE with the exception of stylesheet.css. It only affects template edits and some other things.

If you want to force the browser/SE to download new file the easiest thing to do is edit stylesheet.css. In your case find:

Code: Select all

@import url("common.css?hash=70bd1301");
Replace with:

Code: Select all

@import url("common.css?hash=anything");
After uploading edited stylesheet.css purge phpBB's cache to increment the asset value for stylesheet.css which will force download of edited file. By also changing the parameter value for common.css this is also considered a new file and the browser/SE will download it too. When it comes time to update you do not have to worry about maintaining the edit to this file.
“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I have found several thousand things that won’t work.”

Attributed - Thomas Edison
urzh
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by urzh »

Update: Some URL's cleared ok, but still getting new errors. Here's an example for one site


Examples --

CLS issue: more than 0.25 (mobile) / LCP issue: longer than 4s (mobile):
https://thaterrormessage.com/viewtopic.php?t=3687

CLS issue: more than 0.25 (desktop):
https://thaterrormessage.com/viewtopic.php?t=3687
SQLnovice
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by SQLnovice »

Our humble site as well. 500 URLS need improvement

CLS issue: more than 0.1 (mobile) NEED IMPROVEMENT
LCP issue: longer than 2.5s (mobile) NEED IMPROVEMENT


I added the (max-width: 800px) text too. Like you, we began to recover even before modifying that CSS file, then suddenly without any changes to our site, they slammed us again. So I made the text changes, throwing spaghetti at the wall. We're dragging bottom at 10% good URLs in Mobile. It defies logic.

And further, when I click on Google's example URLs and test them using the tool they suggest, Pagespeed Insights, we have one page that's an 85 on mobile and the rest are in the green at 91 and above. All the pages from a PC browser are in the green. I almost think that Google Web vitals is broken or they're in the middle of a conversion and nobody over there is at the wheel keeping this aspect working.

Unfortunately, I can also see we're not the number one or two site in our category anymore. Our search results ranking is 25th and falling. I've lost almost all interest in trying to figure out what it takes to measure up. We are absolutely without question the number one most active site with viable content on our subject matter on the Web. All other sites with similar content have died off. We are it! And yet, Google says no we're not. :evil:
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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

sounds like a good example of why not to worry to much about all that stuff.

even google says that if you use good keywords in h1 h2 etc. and if you have good fresh content about your subject you will be fine.

robert
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I am pleased to announce that I have completed the first item on my bucket list. I have the bucket.
urzh
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by urzh »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:29 am sounds like a good example of why not to worry to much about all that stuff.

even google says that if you use good keywords in h1 h2 etc. and if you have good fresh content about your subject you will be fine.

robert
Hey Lumpy, is it true the next major release of phpbb will be a redesign? just curious
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thecoalman
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by thecoalman »

There is link in console next to the exmaple URL's that will take you to the pageinsight analysis that gives you more detailed information. Or you can directly input URL here:

https://pagespeed.web.dev/?hl=en

One of the key metrics is initial server response and time to load the root document as that affects everything else. If you are in the 200ms range you are doing pretty good. If it's a lot fixing this is not so simple especially on shared hosting.



Lumpy Burgertushie wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:29 am sounds like a good example of why not to worry to much about all that stuff.

even google says that if you use good keywords in h1 h2 etc. and if you have good fresh content about your subject you will be fine.

robert
SE's are going to gauge a site on many things. Some more important than others but as an aggregate those little things add up to lot.
“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I have found several thousand things that won’t work.”

Attributed - Thomas Edison
urzh
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by urzh »

Thanks for pointing that out. I haven't gotten as familiar yet with the new console and more focused on folks interacting on my site more. Here's pagespeed results of paints on one of problematic links for Desktop and Mobile. It's hard to believe, my site is extremely fast loading everywhere.


https://thaterrormessage.com/viewtopic.php?t=3545

CapturFiles.jpg
CapturFiles_1.jpg
CapturFiles_2.jpg
CapturFiles_3.jpg
CapturFiles_4.jpg
Last edited by Mick on Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed unnecessary full quote.
SQLnovice
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by SQLnovice »

If you're at 65, I'm at 90, and Google hates us both, there's little hope of catering to their 3G mobile analytic demands.

Hows' your average SE page position? Are the core Web vitals potentially negatively impacting your page position?
urzh
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by urzh »

SQLnovice wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:45 am If you're at 65, I'm at 90, and Google hates us both, there's little hope of catering to their 3G mobile analytic demands.

Hows' your average SE page position? Are the core Web vitals potentially negatively impacting your page position?
My indexing stops, no new indexing. It's worse than rank dropping IMO
SQLnovice
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by SQLnovice »

I made a slew of changes, repairing hundreds of posts in an attempt to satisfy Google's 3G lust to no avail.

Then I used the old Windows Safe Mode trick of seeing how my forum ran w/o any extensions. I re-ran the PageSpeed Insights tests and there was a marked improvement. I whittled it down to the Google Search Box extension v3.2.4. Mobile scores are now averaging about 91, so green. Desktop speeds are 99 - 100. How ironic is that?!

We're still getting dumped on in Core Web Vitals, but our LCP completely recovered after waiting about a week for Google to catch up. I mean, it went from a linear progression up to 1,100 affected URLs to zero, overnight. LCP has remained at zero ever since. Oddly, our CLS scores have gone up, while their average times are skirting right above Google's 0.15 second threshold. The excuse it shows is that PHPBB does a page shift, probably from the menus consolidating on the navbar and to Google's 3G mobile test, that is intolerable!

In total, CWV has us dragging bottom at 0.2% Good URLs and falling, our site Performance stats are improving now, and I'm seeing an inflow of new members, so regardless of Google's bad ratings, they haven't completely killed us off yet.
SQLnovice
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Re: Google search console and web vitals concerns

Post by SQLnovice »

Following up.

I've done nothing since. And while it took some time for the site to recover, all our site's numbers have returned to 100%/100%, green, all in good standing. :|

Without
doing
a
damn
thing
.
Maybe my superstition, but besides Google perhaps changing some of their stupid criteria, the fact that the site cache hasn't been cleared during this time, may also have to do with it. :idea:
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