[4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by DavidIQ »

Comparing the tactics that Facebook uses, a multi-billion dollar company with advertisement targeting techniques at their fingertips plus the ability to constantly target their users with millions of different topics, to what an individual forum user who does it as a hobby is very "apples and oranges". Not saying that we shouldn't do things to make phpBB easier to use (Facebook's ease of use is probably why it's sometimes known as your parent's social media and the younger generation flocks to other platforms), but what Facebook has done to be successful cannot be compared to what an individual forum owner can do.

That being said Chameleon does go in the direction of making the software easier to use which can attract more users to those individual forums.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by JLA »

david63 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:28 pm
GanstaZ wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:58 am it could have been done by anyone who wanted to contribute
But this is the whole problem that nobody is coming forward, or being recruited, to contribute to any aspect of the project. I suspect that there are enough style developers out there that could have re-factored prosilver in four years - after all Arty did most of it overnight
What if this became a funded project through donations or grants. Would that be enough motivation to enable people to move this forward?
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by halil16 »

I think it would be nice to have a full-width sticky navbar instead of a huge header banner. Maybe there will be a logo in the middle and a sticky navbar under it. Maybe we have the right to choose or be able to develop it the way we want...

This project is like the big cry expected from phpBB, who has figuratively fallen into silence. (It may not be clear from the translation, I'm complimenting it.)

I always follow and progress makes me happy. I wish I could code well, I'd be happy to participate in development.

I think it is necessary to take advantage of the features that make social media attractive. For example, a qualified profile page; likes or expressions; be design is tactile in mobile; push notifications...
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

Unfortunately we can not do a sticky navbar as the forum navigation is meant to be a secondary navigation for integration into a sites primary navigation. It would conflict with a major usecase. But we can add it down the road as a secondary option to swap out for those that do not integrate. Thats the flexibility of the new approach.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by halil16 »

The new theme is exciting. But I have a few suggestions on this subject. One of them is to be inspired by what existing social media applications/sites offer.

Here I will talk about clicking the profile link in the navbar. The current situation is:

navbar-profil-sekmesi.jpg

A drop-down menu appears where you click on your profile avatar or icon. However, we should not equate the situation on phones with that on desktops. My advice is to have a side-opening special area like Twitter.

twitter-profile-menu.jpg

First of all, I thought that the menu we talked about in the new theme was full screen and the drop-down parts page were separate. But it may be more useful if it is like Twitter.

And shouldn't the exit link be at the bottom of the menu instead of at the top? And... It would be nice to have the members' usernames in their profile URLs...

I wrote to area51. I wanted to write it here as it will reach more people in general.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by GanstaZ »

It would be nice to have the members' usernames in their profile URLs...
How is this related to chameleon development or any other style?

How is Twitter style more useful? Expand on that for those, who don't use it. About exit link being at the top.. I don't think that it is an issue.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

By side panel you mean cover the main nav with a close icon? The reason again is because a forum is meant to be integrated into an existing site structure. That would completely break that capability or conflict with it
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by halil16 »

GanstaZ wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:38 pm How is this related to chameleon development or any other style?
Yes, you are right. I'm talking about phpBB4 but this is not the place.
GanstaZ wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:38 pm How is Twitter style more useful? Expand on that for those, who don't use it. About exit link being at the top.. I don't think that it is an issue.
Hanakin wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:10 pm By side panel you mean cover the main nav with a close icon? The reason again is because a forum is meant to be integrated into an existing site structure. That would completely break that capability or conflict with it
Actually, I just gave an example. I mean it's more like a settings menu rather than a simple drop-down menu that pops up on click. Just like the settings menu on Android or iOS. It appears on the screen as if you were opening a settings tab on mobile, while it was a drop-down menu on desktop, as in Twitter or Instagram or Facebook.

In the meantime, I would like to draw attention to the fact that I argue that this should only be on mobile devices; on the desktop as needed.

The reason I want this is because in the new style, instead of two or three options as before, many options are neatly located under the profile tab. I really liked this. I wanted it to be in a style that specifically fills the screen when it is clicked on mobile.

The Twitter example may not have fully explained what I mean. When we look at Facebook or Instagram, you will see that when you click on the relevant menu, it fills the screen and only focuses on it. It takes a very simple touch to exit again.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

@halli16 currently, the sidebar is just that it is not a drop-down but rather a slide-in which is far more versatile for mobile as it can take up the whole screen while being anchored to it. I am not sure what you are trying to say is better different here other than the look which is something that can/will be tweaked in the latter and in the theme layer. Right now we are focusing on getting all the main content components defined.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

I want to continue the discussion about the topic row layout design I have built a graphic to help us talk and discuss the different aspects that comprise it and when and how to use them across all the sizes of screens that we support.

everything is designed in monochrome color by default for now. I will add colors once the layout is nailed down The colors used in the graphic are to emphasize the use of the elements.

please have a look at the provide graphic and provide your feedback as necessary in relation to the individual elements and the overall layout.

to break it down anything in purple is a function or element we are considering removing. Either due to space or confusing functionality. The other colors signify when/what size of the screen it is visible on

The approach used here is to simplify everything into 4 categories or sections. This makes it extremely simple to render and work with across all devices.

The left side is the "Media" section which contains just the "Topic Imageset"
The middle contains two rows. The top row is the "Title/Primary Link" section. The bottom row is the "Meta" section which contains everything else.
The right side is the "Recent" which contains info about the most recent reply and links to it.

please reference the image for specific element names when providing any feedback
topic row.png
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by david63 »

I am not sure why after over four years we are still discussing basic layout.

It is clearly evident that you have never run a board because if you had you would be aware that users do not like, nor want, significant changes to the way that they use the board and could not care less about the techical problems. At this stage we should be replicating prosilver with the minimum of changes and then at a later stage if that is desired as the way forward producing a more "modern" style.

This is nothing different than when phpBB went to 3.0 where subsilver (fron phpBB 2) was still available for several years.

Users can be pesuaded/encouraged to change but it takes time.

This whole project has taken too long to come to fruition and now needs some urgent action to become a reality if phpBB is ever going to move forward.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

I am not sure why after over 4 years you still can't seem to stop complaining, spout utter nonsense, and constantly attempt to derail the intent of this topic despite being educated several times on some very basic concepts.

Prosilver’s design and codebase do not work.

Its code is a mess and unmanageable. Not to mention never coded properly for specificity or scalability.

Its design is also not scalable, translatable, or extendable across multiple devices and screen sizes. All the current functionality was hacked on in non-ideal or proper ways. There is no consistency or room for readability let alone expandability.

I can not really put it more simply than that.

This is the direction we are moving and it is not going to change. It is also not our job to cater to your users, it is your job. Our job is to make it easier, more efficient, and effective for you to design, modify, extend, and ultimately manage the forums. Anything related to what the end-user thinks or wants is not really of concern outside of does it meet the functionality and intent they are looking for.

Your concern over unwanted change is first of all 💯 not true of every user. But is best handled like every change to every app in existence employs it via a transition period. This is why I am planning on maintaining prosilver compatibility for 4.0 and moving it from release to here in 4.1 and completely removing support sometime after that.

Know the intent of this topic is for constructive feedback to help steer chameleon's progress. If you have nothing constructive then please do not bother posting in this topic. Consider this a final warning ⚠️ It will not be tolerated anymore and official warnings will be issued.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by AmigoJack »

Hanakin wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:11 amIts also not are job to cater to your users, its your job. Are job is
I, as a non-native English speaker, am very sure these are repeated mistakes and the correct text should have been:
It's also not our job to cater to your users, it's your job. Our job is
I consider this constructive feedback as non-native English speakers being even less uncertain might have difficulties with distinguishing the possessive "its" from the verb "it is" or can't sense the correct term despite similar phonetics. Not to be confused with the pirate's "arr".
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  • "But this shit is not here for you. You can follow with your. Maybe the question, instead, was for you, who know, so you shoved us how you are." axe70, 2020-10-10
  • "My reaction is not to everyone, especially to you." Raptiye, 2021-02-28
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Crizzo »

To all:
I would put the author avatar to the left, then the topic icon, poll, attachments, time created, replies,...

The approval icon looks to me, to be only needed sometimes and only by moderators, could be consider optional then and so to the most right position in this icon bar.

What is "pages action"?

@mobile Small:

I would prefer the time created and author avatar instead of the reply count.
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Re: [4.0.x][DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

@Crizzo

Sure let's talk meta order I have not really thought in-depth on everything. So it will give me a chance to think through it.
Crizzo wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 11:00 am What is "pages action"?
A hoverable/clickable button that shows the topics paging on desktop only.
Crizzo wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 11:00 am I would put the author avatar to the left, then the topic icon, poll, attachments, time created, replies,...
I think the main reason I stuck the author last was that it is the longest and a dynamic length at that. Which poses the most challenge for adaptive/responsiveness. This was the simplest and easiest way to allow it to flex. But I agree I would like it more left but definitely not first see next response.
Crizzo wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 11:00 am The approval icon looks to me, to be only needed sometimes and only by moderators, could be considered optional then and so to the most right position in this icon bar.
both the approval and status icons from a design pattern describe a status second only to the imageset. These are higher cognitive decision and is related to performing sorting/filtering actions at a high level. Compare this to staring or marking an email as important in Gmail. Currently, both of these are at the front of a topic just in the title row. The issue is it causes render issues in the title row which is why I moved it down into the meta, but I kept the order due to it being a status it should come first.

one thing we could consider is maybe changing the imageset to a different color to indicate approval to remove the need for the icon. so read/unread/needs approved perhaps grey/blue/red
Crizzo wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 11:00 am @mobile Small:

I would prefer the time created and author avatar instead of the reply count.
Both the time and the user name will not fit even by themselves but could do just the avatar and the date may be. But the approval is still required and I would say replies needs to stay. I can always do a different layout for mobile small where meta extends below the recent section giving us a little more space.

Ideally, I was thinking the order should be based on decision weight

approval/status/attachment/polls/author/date/replies/views/pages

also, keep in mind with all the date fields I am simplifying them going forward to save space and not going to have any alternate ways of displaying this info. Ie it will always show a time (14:22 or 2:22 pm) on the day of and will always show a date (12.30.22 or 12/30/22) after the day of. The only thing language will adjust is order, separators, and 12 vs 24hr time.
topic row v2.0.0.png
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