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Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:11 pm
by Ludovic B
Ok.
Situation :
Forum members : ABCDE.

Once, B bothers A with an offending message.
With the auto-moderation rule (described here : viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1216515 ),
A deletes the offending message from B.

But B does it again, and posts 2 agressive comments on the topic of A.
Then, A can block B.
Consequences :
- A cannot see any topic or comment written by B.
- B cannot see any topic or comment written by A.

Now, C opens a topic. C and A, and C and B, are still visible to each other.
So : CDE can see what A and B posted on C's topic. But B can not see what A wrote, and A can not either see what C wrote.

Clear ? :)
Why don't you create different forums on your board and then user groups which only have (write) access to specific forums? That way a user can be member of the groups "pro-feminism", "anti-global warming" and "pro-christianity" and at the same time he can't post anything to the forums titled "child's corner", "programming" and "birth control"?
Because the conflicts may come from anything, any matter, even very stupid details, that... are not details for some sensitive people who might easily feel offended and feel a need to protect themselves, even when they are the only people to feel this way.
It's is true that I took only ideological examples.
But conflicts might come from an attitude, a style of speech, the level of violence or profanity, that is very differently felt according to A, B, C, D and E.
And we think that everyone is allowed to have a special sensitivity.

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:41 pm
by Master_Cylinder
AmigoJack wrote: Why don't you create different forums on your board and then user groups which only have (write) access to specific forums? That way a user can be member of the groups "pro-feminism", "anti-global warming" and "pro-christianity" and at the same time he can't post anything to the forums titled "child's corner", "programming" and "birth control"?
This isn't the ideas forum; why are you debating a MOD request? If you don't like the MOD, don't install it. He's just asking for somebody to make one; it doesn't have to be you although a MOD author doesn't have to want the MOD to make it either... ;)

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:05 pm
by AmigoJack
The MOD would severily hit the board core:
  1. "Last post by" per topic must become dynamic
  2. Topic author must per topic must become dynamic
  3. "Last post by" per forum must become dynamic
  4. Post count per topic when listing a forum must become dynamic
  5. Post count per forum when listing a forum/index must become dynamic
  6. Topic count per forum when listing a forum/index must become dynamic
  7. When viewing a topic all its posts must be interlinked with all foes of the current viewer to render an accurate pagination
  8. When viewing a forum all its topics must be interlinked with all foes of the current viewer to render an accurate pagination
  9. Search results must filter foe posts
  10. Sending a PM must check if a recipient defined the sender as foe.
  11. UCP > subscriptions must follow a), b) and c)
  12. UCP > bookmarks must follow a), b) and c)
Points a) thru h) drastically increase database workload and there's no way to cache it. And on top I guess there should always be an exception to administrators. And should MCP topic/forum listings be affected aswell?

It's possible, but the costs should be horrible. Left alone this might be pointless once one of the sensible members hit search engine results where guests see all posts...

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:28 pm
by Ludovic B
AmigoJack :) <3
Even if you sound pessimistic, the list you just made sounds GREAT.
That's the technical program we need to make our user-managed forum !!!
Ok this is a bit complex and tricky, ok this is a...

REVOLUTION !!!

And no revolution is easy to make.
But think of all the forums that could be interested in the future.
There are all the forums that need a central control, for many reasons.
But there are all the forums that would gain much in user-self-management !

We can see how the Internet changed society, changed knowledge, leisure, travel, teaching, working.
Those changes here, giving the power to the people themselves, TRUST them all, would also change sthg to society.

And this MOD is needed too :
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1216515

So now I suggest the challenge is :

- Take phpBB3, the last version, 3.0.12
- Integrate the MOD User can moderate their own topics
- Integrate the MOD Advanced user Ignore that you just defined
- Integrate Auto-mod, that's very useful for newbies
- Integrate the premod SEO (because many forum will need that to rewrite url and be indexed in Google)
And give that back to the community as a ready-to-use all-in-one package.

I would, but I can not do that because I have no skills in php, but a coder would know how to do that.

If you agree that the idea is good, would we gather our forces to lead this project ?
With all the posters here (YuLeven, Master_Cylinder, AmigoJack...), and some others elsewhere, like those of the MOD Users can moderate their topics ? (created by Sonya)

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:38 pm
by Lumpy Burgertushie
why do you think there would be much call for something like this?

phpbb has never supported "pre-mods" like that.

what you describe sounds more like anarchy than anything else.

why would a board owner want to just allow a free for all on his board?

what would be the benefit of all that confusion?

I believe that most board owners would want a bit more control over their board that what you are describing.

and you can forget the SEO thing.

as has been stated over and over, phpbb does not need that type of url rewrite SEO stuff.
the search engines just don't care what the url of a page or a post etc. is. it has very little , if any, affect on search engine ranking or placement.

boards that have no rules or have rules and don't enforce them don't usually last very long.

boards that have a "free for all" mentality don't usually last very long.

they would turn into nothing but a bunch of trolls fighting with each other all the time.

I doubt you will find much support here for setting up that type of board.

luck,
robert

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:02 am
by Ludovic B
I think our suggestions to give control to the people themselves, without central control, is important because it is the technical way to spread democracy and freedom of speech.

The current set of rules by default in phpBB matches a political system like monarchy :

- King --> Admin
- Nobles --> Moderators
- People --> Members

And we're not monarchists, we're democrats.

Current democracies are centralized, pretendingly, because it is "not possible" to let everybody rule, so we "need" to elect representatives.

But actually we do not need representatives any more because we have the Internet to gather all citizens with equal rights to decide for themselves, make groups, separate, unite, discuss, evaluate, etc.

It's a form of DIRECT DEMOCRACY.

Sure, that's what is a bit revolutionnary here.

If I may list the problems of a centralized control over the freedom of speech of the people :
- It's tiring for moderators
- It's tiring to be called "trolls" by people who just don't think as you do - everybody is someone else's troll
- It's unfair to be banned an arbitrary way
- Nothing allows the moderators to take control over someone else's right to expression - even making mistakes or being rude is a right, everybody makes mistakes at some point, and repression does not solve this problem
- It' is better for the community to have a wide diversity of opinions, rather than uniformity
- There are always many divergent opinions about any topic
- ...

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:49 am
by Master_Cylinder
It's his board if he wants the MOD and somebody is willing to make it then I don't see the problem. Opinions regarding whether it's a good idea or not are irrelevant, since MODs are optional.

Perhaps the person writing it skips the premod and only fixes the A can't post in B's and vice-versa part; that's up to whoever writes it but the basic request of a better ignore system would make for a good MOD and some of the features could even belong in the core.

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:53 am
by Danielx64
Master_Cylinder wrote:It's his board if he wants the MOD and somebody is willing to make it then I don't see the problem. Opinions regarding whether it's a good idea or not are irrelevant, since MODs are optional.

Perhaps the person writing it skips the premod and only fixes the A can't post in B's and vice-versa part; that's up to whoever writes it but the basic request of a better ignore system would make for a good MOD and some of the features could even belong in the core.
There was a profile privacy mod in the database, but it needs fixing first.

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:17 am
by Lumpy Burgertushie
what you are describing is close to anarchy than it is to democracy. however, neither one of them have ever been successful.

in the US we have a constitutional republic/representative republic. we do NOT have a democracy.

freedom of speech is all well and good and I am usually all for it.

however, a bulletin board does not have to offer it and usually they don't.

technically, in the US, the freedom of speech thing only involves the government.

the government can not deny you the right to say anything you want up to a point. If you yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater when there is no, you can be prosecuted for it.

freedom comes with responsibility for your actions as well.
in a bulletin board, if you are being a troll, or generally causing a problem, then it is certainly the right of the board owner to ban you, censor you, or whatever they decide to do.

it is certainly the board owner's right to create whatever rules they wish and enforce them by whatever means they see fit.

it is not your right as a board member/user to disrupt someone's board or site etc.

if you do, then you are responsible for the consequences.

this is just life, doesn't matter if it is on a bulletin board or in a school or in your home or if you are the president of the US.

I'm out,

robert

Re: Advanced User Ignore MOD

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:18 am
by Master_Cylinder
Danielx64 wrote:
Master_Cylinder wrote:It's his board if he wants the MOD and somebody is willing to make it then I don't see the problem. Opinions regarding whether it's a good idea or not are irrelevant, since MODs are optional.

Perhaps the person writing it skips the premod and only fixes the A can't post in B's and vice-versa part; that's up to whoever writes it but the basic request of a better ignore system would make for a good MOD and some of the features could even belong in the core.
There was a profile privacy mod in the database, but it needs fixing first.
Does/would it do what the OP is asking?

A quick search says no...