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Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:29 pm
by MsIrey
Could someone tell me when support of subsilver2 is expected to expire? I am not necessarily looking for an exact date. A phpBB version number would be helpful.

It seems to me from what I have been reading that subsilver2's days are pretty much numbered. I am asking because we currently have a subsilver2 based style as our default on our site and wish to be prepared for the drop of subsilver2 before it becomes a major issue.

The only reference I found upon re-searching was in a 2008 Blog. Is there any info more current to refer to?

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:43 pm
by Lumpy Burgertushie
MsIrey wrote:Could someone tell me when support of subsilver2 is expected to expire? I am not necessarily looking for an exact date. A phpBB version number would be helpful.

It seems to me from what I have been reading that subsilver2's days are pretty much numbered. I am asking because we currently have a subsilver2 based style as our default on our site and wish to be prepared for the drop of subsilver2 before it becomes a major issue.

The only reference I found upon re-searching was in a 2008 Blog. Is there any info more current to refer to?
where have you seen anything about it being discontinued?

robert

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:06 pm
by MsIrey
In the Sept. 18, 2008
Blog
Londonvasion Re-Cap – phpBB Ascraeus:
There is much to do. ;) As you can see, we basically started planning what we want to see. We also need to take into account that we want to retain some sort of backward compatibility – in the sense of not rewriting everything. :) subsilver2 will most likely be dropped though.
Here is the link to the blog:
http://blog.phpbb.com/2008/09/19/london ... /#more-140

Here is one Q&A from the discussion that followed the Blog:
Why to drop subsilver2 ? It’s widely admirable by lots of users, it’s really a nice looking style though.

We only provide it with Olympus because people knew it – the first intention was to only provide prosilver. :) But with Ascraeus we do not want to take care of two separate styles, so we will drop one and hope some talented styler will be able to provide a “clean, square” style, maybe even our styles team. :)
Is there any info more current than this?

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:07 pm
by stickerboy
There was a big discussion a while ago about this - http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... &t=1353385

*edit* I should add that it's not going to be dropped in the 3.0.x line - don't know about future versions

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:54 pm
by MsIrey
Thank you for the link. It appears to be a 7 page (at this point, anyway) lively discussion on the Blog link I provided above. It doesn't negate the information provided in the Blog. Having said that, the Blog left wiggle room regarding the subsilver2 issue.

I am under the impression at this point that come 3.1, official support will be dropped for subsilver2. It also looks as though 3.1 could easily be released this year. Am I reading too much into things?

I didn't ask this question to start another thread where some agree with dropping subsilver2 and others defend keeping it. I really just want to know what phpBB is planning at this point of development. After all, that Blog is almost a year and a half old at this point and some plans are probably pretty well defined and others still in the making. Is it possible to have a more up to date idea as to how things are progressing?

Edited for typo.

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:06 pm
by DavidIQ
MsIrey wrote:It also looks as though 3.2 could easily be released this year. Am I reading too much into things?
Yes. 3.0.7 is in RC stages and it's already the end of February. I wouldn't expect 3.1 this year.

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:21 pm
by MsIrey
Well, David, that is good news. That means I can get my finger off the panic button for now!

I'm still wondering what the future holds for subsilver2 even though I can see now it may not mean we have to begin the struggle of changing themes at this point. Like the 7 page thread referred to, not just many..but most of our members tend to like the subsilver2 based style we have so any change is not going to be without it's share of discussion/debate.

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:36 pm
by DavidIQ
Well, technically, only subsilver2 will be retired. That does not mean, however, that styles authors cannot continue to create styles based on subsilver2 ;)

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:23 pm
by MsIrey
DavidIQ wrote:Well, technically, only subsilver2 will be retired. That does not mean, however, that styles authors cannot continue to create styles based on subsilver2 ;)
Okay, you are having fun with me now. :lol:

I am more concerned about the official continued support for the coding, not so much about what it aesthetically reminds one of when looking at the finished style/theme.

As I understand it, it is more than the appearance that distinguishes subsilver2 from prosilver styles. Is the table method of coding - and it's support - being retired in 3.1?

Edited for typo.

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:54 am
by sunsop
Even if sub2 is dropped as an officially "supported" style, that does NOT mean that it will cease to function with phpBB. It will simply not be included in further distributions. One can always load it as an additional style as you would do now with non-official phpBB styles. No panic mode is necessary - many of us prefer sub2 and will continue to use it no matter what phpBB decides to do with it.

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:10 am
by Darth Wong
MsIrey wrote:Well, David, that is good news. That means I can get my finger off the panic button for now!

I'm still wondering what the future holds for subsilver2 even though I can see now it may not mean we have to begin the struggle of changing themes at this point. Like the 7 page thread referred to, not just many..but most of our members tend to like the subsilver2 based style we have so any change is not going to be without it's share of discussion/debate.
If push comes to shove, you could always make a prosilver-based theme that looks like your current theme. I had to recreate the appearance of an old phpBB2 theme when I upgraded to phpBB3, and I chose to base it on subsilver2 just because the existing tabular structure of subsilver looked more like what I wanted out of the box. I do not, however, hold any illusions that I might have to create another look-alike theme again in future, and if future versions of phpBB require a switch to a prosilver-based solution, then that's the way the ball bounces. The issue won't be forced for quite a while anyway.

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:15 am
by MsIrey
I agree Darth, but it is not an undertaking any of us admins are wanting to take on. We would rather be prepared with a coding style that is officially supported. It is really difficult to get a straight forward answer as to whether or not the tables coding will be supported. From where I sit, it looks like tables coding is being dropped. However, since there seems to be a general agreement that even if it is, it is not likely to be this year. From that I can rest assured that we have ample time to prepare for the change.

Then again, someone pointed out that in all likelihood 3.1 will not be upgradable from 3.0.x anyway. So no matter what, it looks like we will have an install fest when the time comes no matter how much we try to prepare. One thing that is sure: It's best to keep those test forums cranked up. :D

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:18 am
by MsIrey
DavidIQ wrote:
MsIrey wrote:It also looks as though 3.2 could easily be released this year. Am I reading too much into things?
Yes. 3.0.7 is in RC stages and it's already the end of February. I wouldn't expect 3.1 this year.
Ooops. Thanks for that. I am going to change the typo in my post from 3.2 to 3.1 which is Ascraeus.

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:06 pm
by Darth Wong
MsIrey wrote:I agree Darth, but it is not an undertaking any of us admins are wanting to take on. We would rather be prepared with a coding style that is officially supported. It is really difficult to get a straight forward answer as to whether or not the tables coding will be supported. From where I sit, it looks like tables coding is being dropped. However, since there seems to be a general agreement that even if it is, it is not likely to be this year. From that I can rest assured that we have ample time to prepare for the change.
I don't really understand the hatred for tables that exists within the coding community. I know it originated in the era when tables were massively overused for formatting purposes, but a data dump via rows and tables is precisely what HTML tables were meant for. It seems like the pendulum is swinging too far in the other direction when people treat tables like the red-headed stepchild of HTML.

Re: Duration of subsilver2 support

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:16 am
by sunsop
It's a question of using markup correctly and semantically. Tables have always been intended for "tabular information" - not website layout. That is where the problem arises. It's not "hatred" - it's a question of using the process correctly. Using tables to layout a design can bring nothing but problems where certain browsers are concerned. Layout is properly done using semantic HTML with CSS used to style the markup. Visit a site like Sitepoint sometime and read what the acknowledged experts in the design field have to say about tables and proper design.