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Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:43 am
by A_Jelly_Doughnut
Hi everyone,

If you read the blog earlier this week, you saw that we (the development team) are planning to remove subsilver2 from phpBB 3.1.0.

There's been some talk that the development team was not open enough in making this decision. So if you have an opinion on the subject, please note it at our Area51 development forum (where all future features are discussed).

Blog about it, tweet about it, whatever ... the goal is that enough data be collected to make a proper decision.

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:17 am
by Jackson413
keep it I love it

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:38 am
by _Vinny_
I do not think much style and sincermante should not have for future versions of phpBB :arrow:

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:57 am
by Phil
_Vinny_ wrote:I do not think much style and sincermante should not have for future versions of phpBB :arrow:
Can you reword that please? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:15 pm
by Ashtagon
I think it should be the primary default skin. It is so much better than that other one that comes in the default download.

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:25 pm
by marian0810
Ashtagon wrote:I think it should be the primary default skin.
That's certainly a refreshing point of view :lol: I totally agree, let's get rid of prosilver :D

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:27 pm
by _Vinny_
Phil wrote:
_Vinny_ wrote:I do not think much style and sincermante should not have for future versions of phpBB :arrow:
Can you reword that please? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
Sorry my bad english :|

I agree with the removal ;)

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:30 pm
by therat
Also agree with removing subsilver, personally think prosilver is much easier to customise.

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:46 pm
by Tom
therat wrote:Also agree with removing subsilver, personally think prosilver is much easier to customise.
I feel the same way. The table-based layout that subsilver2 employs is, in my opinion, a hindrance to customization. Prosilver is a movement toward a more "modern" style of design and structure, and I feel that it is best that subsilver2 be dropped in future releases of phpBB. Also, maintaining two styles simultaneously as opposed to only maintaining one style can become a nuisance for various individuals who work with the phpBB software, including the developers, MOD writers, and style authors. I feel that it is time that we move on and let go of this once beloved style. That's just my two cents.

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:26 pm
by marian0810
MOD writers and style authors already have a choice and don't have to use subsilver2 if they don't want to, so how can it possibly be nuisance to them?
IMHO the problem with these kind of statements is that if you don't like subsilver2 you're probably not using it anyway. So the decision to drop it won't affect you but neither will the decision to keep it supported.
And while it doesn't make any difference to you either way, you're still helping to make other people's lives miserable :?

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:31 pm
by mtrs
I don't like subsilver2 and never used or installed it on my boards. However, as a mod author I supported subsilver2, because people ask for subsilver2 support.

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:37 pm
by noth
I believe that all "new styles" coming onto the Styles Development forum are a derivative of either prosilver or subsilver2 is that right?

style modders seem to take either of those 2 as their base template and then turn them black, add garish graphics or whatever to arrive at a "new style"

so now all new templates will generate from just prosilver

that's progress

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:46 pm
by PlanetStyles.net
marian0810 wrote:And while it doesn't make any difference to you either way, you're still helping to make other people's lives miserable :?
Whilst I support the decision to drop Subsilver2 from the 3.1 development branch, if nobody opts to first I plan to port Subsilver2 to 3.1 and release it under a new "Subsilver3" name or something...so don't get miserable just yet ;).

On a side note if any other style authors are also interested in supporting a ported Subsilver I'd be open to some kind of collaboration.

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:07 pm
by marian0810
Christian 2.0 wrote:if nobody opts to first I plan to port Subsilver2 to 3.1 and release it under a new "Subsilver3" name or something
That's good to know and lots of board owners will probably be very grateful :) But I fear lots of others will still get in trouble because they depend on the automatic updater.

Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:11 pm
by Tom
marian0810 wrote:MOD writers and style authors already have a choice and don't have to use subsilver2 if they don't want to, so how can it possibly be nuisance to them?
If a MOD author writes a MOD and includes only the edits for prosilver, then that means that board operators using subsilver2 will not be able to use the MOD on their board if it requires style edits (unless they are able to translate the edits for prosilver to subsilver2 successfully, which can be difficult for some MODs). Therefore, many MOD authors (such as myself) feel compelled to also create and provide edits for subsilver2 so that their MOD can be usable for more board owners overall. This then means that the MOD author must keep the separate edits for subsilver2 up-to-date along with the rest of the MOD's files and edits every time there is an update to those areas in the MOD, or in the event that a maintenance release of the phpBB software modifies a part of the style that this MOD originally requires to be modified. Also, the MOD author must now provide support for users of the MOD on subsilver2, which could or could not be a real issue depending on the complexity of the style edits.

Dropping subsilver2 will also help to allow the developers to focus their time on more important things rather than keeping two styles up-to-date and compatible with every new release of phpBB, but that's a discussion for another day.

Also, if you are very much in need of a subsilver2 style for 3.1.x, I am sure that style authors from the community will come together to produce some sort of subsilver2-like style for the new phpBB version (as mentioned previously). It may take some time, but I'm sure it will happen eventually.