Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users.
Forum rules
General Discussion is a bonus forum for discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users. All site rules apply.
User avatar
Phil
Former Team Member
Posts: 10403
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:11 am
Name: Phil Crumm
Contact:

Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by Phil » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:55 am

I've noticed in the news recently that Australia (and Germany) have taken to censoring various video games with regards to the amount of violence they allow portrayed -- the most notable recent example of this is Left 4 Dead 2. While the game itself is somewhat gorey (dead zombie bodies, a rather realistic gore engine, and blood), it's nothing worse than other games I've seen in the past. This leads to a rather interesting question: is the censorship of video games and similar too much? Is it really the government's job to protect grown adults (keep in mind that even at its rating level post gore removal it is still at a level where only those mature enough to handle such gore (16+) are capable of purchasing -- and this age is higher in other countries like the US)?

As a related point, myself and several phpBB team/community members play L4D2 and other Steam games regularly (TF2) etc. If you are interesting in joining us for a game sometime, join the Steam group and message me and we'll try to coordinate times where we can play together.
Moving on, with the wind. | My Corner of the Web

User avatar
EXreaction
Former Team Member
Posts: 5666
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:31 pm
Location: Wisconsin, U.S.
Name: Nathan

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by EXreaction » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:15 am

Gore = bad; killing zombies with chainsaws less the gore = fine?


Indeed, we are looking for more people to play and are trying to setup a regular weekly time when we can all get together and play a few games. Most of us have L4D1, L4D2, TF2, and CS:S. I would guess that Saturday or Sunday at around 4-6PM CST (10-12 UTC) would work the best, but other days/times certainly may work.

User avatar
Techie-Micheal
Security Consultant
Posts: 19511
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 12:11 am
Location: In your servers

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by Techie-Micheal » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:42 am

While I don't think it is the government's job to do the censorship, there have been games where I've turned off the blood/gore, or if not possible, turned it as low as I could. I'm not one to play games that are all gore all the time, but some games, like TF2 and ET (yes, old school here) do have some blood and/or gore, that I do play. The US's ESRB does a decent job of rating games, so I would not be opposed to something like that system becoming more widely adopted and used, even here in the US. Though that's a can of worms I'm not going to open.
Proven Offensive Security Expertise. OSCP - GXPN

User avatar
Lumpy Burgertushie
Registered User
Posts: 66858
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:11 am
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:30 am

I wonder why the games have to all be about killing/hacking/fighting/violence.

I have no idea what else they could be about, but just don't see the need for all the violence.



robert
also, when I read the topic title I thought is was something about Al Gore and censorship.

:oops: :lol:

robert

User avatar
RMcGirr83
Recognised Extension Developer
Posts: 21034
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: Your display
Name: Rich McGirr
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by RMcGirr83 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:13 am

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:I wonder why the games have to all be about killing/hacking/fighting/violence
Not all of them are (Need For Speed, Rock Band, etc). But the majority of them are.

wGEric
Former Team Member
Posts: 8805
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Friday
Name: Eric Faerber
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by wGEric » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:58 pm

RMcGirr83 wrote:But the majority of them are.
The best ones are. ;)
Eric

User avatar
Lumpy Burgertushie
Registered User
Posts: 66858
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:11 am
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:34 pm

wGEric wrote:
RMcGirr83 wrote:But the majority of them are.
The best ones are. ;)
no offense wGeric, but that is where the problem is. if the players did not want the violent ones, then they wouldn't be available as much.

I see this as a big problem with the last couple of generations of young people.

oh, well, this was not a topic for me to go off on a rant about the social problems of our age......


zzzzzz........


robert

User avatar
lurttinen
Translator
Posts: 4670
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:05 pm
Location: Tampere, Finland
Name: Martti Lokka
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by lurttinen » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:07 pm

iWisdom wrote:This leads to a rather interesting question: is the censorship of video games and similar too much? Is it really the government's job to protect grown adults (keep in mind that even at its rating level post gore removal it is still at a level where only those mature enough to handle such gore (16+) are capable of purchasing -- and this age is higher in other countries like the US)?
You are probably mature enough to handle gore, but age limits will only apply if there is someone to enforce them.
Some stores don't give much to age limitations and even if they do and will not sell the game to a minor.
Torrent it. :D aand... The you have your minors with gore.

Don't fool yourself when you think age limits actually limits youngsters from getting ill stuff. ;)
It does not. Never has and never will. :) There is always one bootlegger.
I hope you don't start anything about how parents should do and prevent such things. There are always parents who don't give a damn about such things. :)

Initial censor, and you keep the whole chain censored and thus protect minors from naughties.
Signature is here

User avatar
Tom
Former Team Member
Posts: 2665
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:12 am
Name: Tom Catullo
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by Tom » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:18 pm

I touched on this issue briefly in one of my replies to the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 topic.

My opinion is that the government shouldn't have the right to tell you what you can and cannot do in situations such as playing video games. In situations such as purchasing and administering drugs, murder, or rape, then of course I would expect the government to have strong laws against such offenses as those. However, video games are simply virtual reality, so who is it really hurting by seeing the gore in these games eludes me. I truly don't understand the purpose of censoring gore in a game such as Left 4 Dead 2. Like EXreaction has point out, just because the gore is disabled in the game doesn't mean that it still isn't violent. You can still fire off bullets, chop zombies in half with melee weapons, and see dead bodies on the ground. So, OK, there's not more blood. Congratulations to you, government. Now what have you accomplished? There is still violence evident in the game, but you're allowing that to remain uncensored. I can't help but believe that governments are simply ignorant on various issues in society today, yet they haughtily act as though they know exactly what they are doing. But, let's not get into that right now. My point is that it should be up to the person whether or not they wish to engage themselves in a game that involves such gore, and if you're a parent, then it is your job to decide whether or not your child is mature enough to handle such a game.

This may sound like a typical American perspective of a "free world," but how can you blame me - it's what I've lived under all my life, and it's the true way life was meant to be lived. Now, America isn't the perfect place by any means, and some of our freedoms are still debated even though they're outlined in the constitution; but the people in any country should still be given the freedom to choose what they would like to do in certain situations, and I feel that this is one of them.

On a lighter note, I'm quite surprised that Australia was one of the countries who had gore censored in Left 4 Dead 2. I never saw them as that type of country before, but, on the other hand, I've never lived or even visited there, so I have no leg to stand on with that claim.
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:this was not a topic for me to go off on a rant about the social problems of our age......
Heh, you're not kidding. Trust me, I've got a whole list of my own on this subject. ;)
Tom Catullo - Former Moderator Team Member
phpBB3 Smiley Pak Generator | Legend Repositioning MOD | My GitHub | My Site

User avatar
Sam
Former Team Member
Posts: 2082
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:59 am
Location: Sacramento, CA
Name: Sam Thompson
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by Sam » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:10 pm

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:I wonder why the games have to all be about killing/hacking/fighting/violence.

I have no idea what else they could be about, but just don't see the need for all the violence.
Simply put: The games sell.

It is what the consumer market demands, and its what the companies deliver.

As for censorship, having something such as the ESRB should be sufficient for video game ratting. Governments should stay out of total censorship, the basis they have, that it encourages violence, is complete nonsense. There are significant differences to playing a video game and actually going out and doing what the characters in the video game do. People who are just violent will conduct in violent acts regardless of if they played some scifi, fantasy games killing zombies or fighting aliens.

It should be the parents responsibility to decide which video games, or any form of media, are appropriate for their children.
Last edited by Sam on Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RMcGirr83
Recognised Extension Developer
Posts: 21034
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: Your display
Name: Rich McGirr
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by RMcGirr83 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:17 pm

I suddenly have the urge to shoot something...virtually speaking of course. ;)

User avatar
Lumpy Burgertushie
Registered User
Posts: 66858
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:11 am
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:46 am

yeah, like maybe the manufacturers of the violent games, music etc.

sorry, but if people can't see the correlation between the amazingly high levels of violence in society these days and the video games and rap music lyrics and gore laden films, then they are either too young to know what they are talking about or are not being honest with themselves.


robert

User avatar
RMcGirr83
Recognised Extension Developer
Posts: 21034
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: Your display
Name: Rich McGirr
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by RMcGirr83 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:49 am

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:yeah, like maybe the manufacturers of the violent games, music etc.

sorry, but if people can't see the correlation between the amazingly high levels of violence in society these days and the video games and rap music lyrics and gore laden films, then they are either too young to know what they are talking about or are not being honest with themselves.


robert
Uhmm, please don't stereotype me. Thanks.

..and I think I'm old enough to know what I am talking about and yes I do remember the "Son of sam" days as well as the "charles Manson days", etc. I wonder what video games they played? Or are those "outliers". :roll:

BTW, this is a bit on topic.

User avatar
AdamR
Former Team Member
Posts: 9731
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida
Name: Adam Reyher
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by AdamR » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:31 am

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:sorry, but if people can't see the correlation between the amazingly high levels of violence in society these days and the video games and rap music lyrics and gore laden films, then they are either too young to know what they are talking about or are not being honest with themselves.
Not necessarily. Reasons for violent crime stem from a good number of things. One could accurately argue that violent criminals have, indeed, been negatively influenced by these video games. However, the game itself is not always the cause. Your average person can, and does, play violent video games and watch violent movies. Your average person doesn't commit these crimes. Yet there are still people who do these acts of violence, so there's obviously some difference between the two.

From the studies I've read, the majority agree that video games can and do influence people towards violence, but these people are typically predisposed to this in the first place. You also must consider the argument that people who, without any influence of video games, commit these violent acts will naturally be interested in these games.

For example, your average person can have a beer or two every once in awhile and be the furthest thing from an alcoholic. Yet other people who are predisposed (or who have a past history with alcoholism) have a drink and it throws them into a pattern of alcoholism.

That being said, I do believe there is a line which should be drawn by individuals, but not by government.

- Adam
phpBB Support: Welcome | Userguide | Knowledge Base | Search
Honored supporter of the phpBB Group!
"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton

User avatar
Lumpy Burgertushie
Registered User
Posts: 66858
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:11 am
Contact:

Re: Left 4 Dead 2's Gore Censorship

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:07 am

RMcGirr83 wrote:
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:yeah, like maybe the manufacturers of the violent games, music etc.

sorry, but if people can't see the correlation between the amazingly high levels of violence in society these days and the video games and rap music lyrics and gore laden films, then they are either too young to know what they are talking about or are not being honest with themselves.


robert
Uhmm, please don't stereotype me. Thanks.

..and I think I'm old enough to know what I am talking about and yes I do remember the "Son of sam" days as well as the "charles Manson days", etc. I wonder what video games they played? Or are those "outliers". :roll:

BTW, this is a bit on topic.
that was not aimed at you at all. I was agreeing with you.

robert

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”