Pending Removal of subsilver2

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marian0810
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by marian0810 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:38 pm

Tom wrote:Therefore, many MOD authors (such as myself) feel compelled to also create and provide edits for subsilver2
But that's your own decision isn't it? You don't have to do it, it's a free choice. Plenty of mod authors don't make a subsilver2 version and that's their free choice too. Just as it should be a free choice for any board owner to decide if they want subsilver2 and not use the mod, or if it's worth switching to prosilver for.
Besides if an 'unofficial' subsilver3 will be released and millions of people use it you might feel just as compelled. It's a totally different issue that has nothing to do with keeping subsilver2 supported or not.
MODs should not even be considered in this discussion.
Tom wrote:Also, if you are very much in need of a subsilver2 style for 3.1.x, I am sure that style authors from the community will come together to produce some sort of subsilver2-like style for the new phpBB version (as mentioned previously). It may take some time, but I'm sure it will happen eventually.
I'm not worried about that at all, but it's not the point. The automatic updater is the point. Getting your questions answered here is the point. Many people will be completely lost without all that.
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by Tom » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:06 pm

The problem is that since phpBB 3.0 was released with subsilver2 as a "carry-on" official style, we now have a large group of users that are using subsilver2 or subsilver2-based styles on their boards and are not in any position to move to prosilver when 3.1 is released. Now that subsilver2 is part of the phpBB3 family, it will likely be impossible to get rid of it in the phpBB 3.x family without ruffling a lot of feathers with board owners still using it. I can understand why you and others would be somewhat upset if subsilver2 was "discontinued" in phpBB 3.1, and it appears as though subsilver2 would need to be carried through every phpBB 3.x release up until 4.0 in order to accommodate those using subsilver2 on their boards. I suppose it's a dilemma that needs to be acknowledged now before making this decision. If the removal of subsilver2 is really going to cause this much of a problem in the community, then maybe it should wait for the 4.x line to be removed (which sounds ridiculous, I know, but it's the hole that was dug in the beginning that can't be filled now without agitating people). As long as the code base of future 3.x releases remains similar enough to 3.0 to maintain some backwards compatibility, people are going to have a point to make that they want subsilver2 supported as well, and likely the only time to get rid of it without agitating people is in the next rewrite of the phpBB code base (4.0) when everyone would have to update to it and leave a lot of things behind, just like it was from phpBB 2 to 3 (if that is how it will be, as this is just speculation of course).

And as a sort of necessary disclaimer: Please note that in this post I do not in any way represent the ideas or opinions of phpBB, the phpBB Team, the Development Team, or any other affiliated party. This is strictly an opinionated post of my own thoughts.
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by Swanny » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:57 am

I put my $.02 in over there. Personally I want to see a style like subsilver2 stay, as I use it on all my forums.

I'm not attached to subsilver2 "per se", but I want a replacement style that's basically identical. You can use CSS and whatever tricks you want, but please keep it the same with the user's info on the left and the post on the right, etc. Keep the look and feel but convert it to CSS and call it subsilver3 ;-)

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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by DavidIQ » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:27 pm

Christian 2.0 wrote:
marian0810 wrote:And while it doesn't make any difference to you either way, you're still helping to make other people's lives miserable :?
Whilst I support the decision to drop Subsilver2 from the 3.1 development branch, if nobody opts to first I plan to port Subsilver2 to 3.1 and release it under a new "Subsilver3" name or something...so don't get miserable just yet ;).

On a side note if any other style authors are also interested in supporting a ported Subsilver I'd be open to some kind of collaboration.
That would certainly be welcomed and would be the way to go in this case. Pretty much what we'd hope for actually :geek:
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by MichaelC » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:57 am

It is an old phpBB 2 style. Shouldn't have been brought this far in my opinion. Not all MOD Authors support it as most find it annoying to have to provide updates for it.
Last edited by MichaelC on Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by marian0810 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:18 pm

Unknown Bliss wrote:and most find it annoying to have to provide updates for it.
But they don't have to :? If they don't like it they shouldn't do it.
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by MichaelC » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:17 pm

marian0810 wrote:
Unknown Bliss wrote:and most find it annoying to have to provide updates for it.
But they don't have to :? If they don't like it they shouldn't do it.
What I mean is, alot of MOD Authors don't support subsilver because it takes too much time to update two styles and not just one..

I meant to put as instead of and. My mistake.
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by marian0810 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:05 pm

Unknown Bliss wrote:What I mean is, alot of MOD Authors don't support subsilver because it takes too much time to update two styles and not just one..
Why would that be a reason to remove subsilver2? If a user wants a mod badly enough he can either adapt it himself, hope that someone else will or decide for himself if it's worth switching to prosilver for. How is that worse than having no choice at all?
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by Christian 2.0 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:14 pm

marian0810 wrote:
Unknown Bliss wrote:What I mean is, alot of MOD Authors don't support subsilver because it takes too much time to update two styles and not just one..
Why would that be a reason to remove subsilver2?
Because the development team don't have the choice.

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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by tuananhdnc » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:20 pm

Maybe because want to reduce burden while simultaneously support two styles, phpBB team wants removed Subsilver.
But I not think the number of people using this style will be greatly reduced. If Subsilver2 not supported on phpbb.com, can it still be supported on other forums.
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by marian0810 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:27 pm

Christian 2.0 wrote:Because the development team don't have the choice.
True :mrgreen: but a totally different point that has nothing to do with MOD authors ;)
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by MichaelC » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:22 pm

Put it this way, say you are bantux, you are making a big patch, like re-making the whole posting system (not planned for 3.1.x (well as far as I know). That would be maybe 100+ edits for the template files. Now, if he had to do that for 2 styles. His workload has doubled too 200+. Then if something looks out of place in one style but good in the other, he has to make it work in both, say another 15 minutes and say 20 edits. That's 120 edits extra.

phpBB is a free open source software, the developers aren't paid (although they give the same quality as if they were paid). They don't have the time to apply edits to multiple styles. phpBB for them is a hobby, something to do in their free time (mind you, some are probably obsessed with it as well and some probably work on it just as much as they would their full-time job).

It would mean instead of, say, nickvergessen, doing the Switch to PHP timezone handling RFC coding and the Avatar improvements, Gravatar RFC (both real RFC's one by ToonArmy, one by Syntax Error) he could do them both in say 1 hour. But too do them both on multiple styles could take 1 hour 40. That 40 minutes could be spent on coding the Enhanced Team Page RFC (by EXreaction).

So the development team, have decided to cut down to one style, as and as the 3.x.x style and easier to code from both developers, mod authors and style authors point's of view they choose to keep prosilver.

If this discussion was about chopping prosilver, there would be 10 times more complaints than this.
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by marian0810 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:15 pm

I don't disagree with that, but it wasn't the issue I replied to.
Unknown Bliss wrote:What I mean is, alot of MOD Authors don't support subsilver
Although IMHO if they wanted to save time there would be much better ways to achieve that, since there are way too many features that should have been left to the MOD authors in the first place.





Edit: spelling
Last edited by marian0810 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by Sally Brown » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:48 pm

Keep it, it's the standard for forum styles.

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Re: Pending Removal of subsilver2

Post by Sajaki » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:24 pm

Sally Brown wrote:Keep it, it's the standard for forum styles.
Subsilver2 is so yesteryear. This is what a forward looking forum style should aim for : [removed]
Last edited by camm15h on Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Link removed: http://www.phpbb.com/rules/#rule6a

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