Unknown Bliss wrote:
Security Audits don't come cheap. They are thousands of pounds.
So they either do it or they don't. Does it matter which product is the new forum software of choice for the developers? Surely they're planning to do it for phpBB 4.0 anyhow? If they did merge (which of course I don't think is at all likely), then they'd do it on the other product, and it would cost no different. They are both completely different products to phpBB 3.x.
Who would you suggest we merge with? Why should we merge? Ultimately merging will not make phpBB any better as it will require a re-write? That would be what a merge is, your talking about a take over.
Who? myBB. Free, open source, nearly all the features phpBB has, plus several features that phpBB doesn't have that I've been waiting years for, plus a real plugin system (phpBB is going to have this REAL SOON NOW, apparently
), etc, etc, etc.
Why? Please read my earlier posts. I'm not going to repeat myself except to say that what is the goal of phpBB. Is it to make phpBB the best, or is it to provide whatever is best to the free-open-forum-software using community. If that is not phpBB, then would it be better to work with whatever that actually is?
I am aware as well as everyone else is that development of 3.1 has been slightly slower than what many would have hoped, and there are numerous discussions going on about how to prevent this from happening in the future.
If you think it's been merely "slightly slower than what many would have hoped", then that is quite sad. It is a reflection on how disconnected phpBB people can be with what people want or expect. I don't have any faith in such discussions. If the problems have not been rectified in the last two years, then I have no expectations for that to improve. Of course I hope that they do improve, and that phpBB 3.1 gets released before May 2012 and that phpBB 4.0 gets released before the end of 2013. But I'm not holding my breath.
Most of the things you've mentioned are feautres that phpBB doesn't have. You can suggest them on Area51
. A new and improved extensions system is being adding in 3.1
At the rate new features get added to phpBB, I don't think I'll waste my time getting them added to the end of that queue, when I can have those features next week by switching to another forum software product, and importing all my phpBB data. It took me just a few hours to create a theme that looks like my phpBB theme.
In your latter post it seems your basically saying phpBB will shut down and tell all of its users to go to another forum software? That isn't a merge? Thats a takeover. Why would we to close phpBB and tell the users to go somewhere else? phpBB is used by over 2 million boards (I think), to me that doesn't sound like phpBB is anything even remotely near closing.
Close, but not quite. I'm suggesting the phpBB do whatever work it takes to make the takeover seamless for the phpBB users (same as they would do for the migration to phpBB 4.0), AND to work with the other developers to implement the phpBB features that the other software doesn't have (there's not many).
Why would not NOT want to close phpBB and tell the users to go somewhere else? Serious question. IF (and it's a big IF), if that other software had all the features of phpBB, PLUS MORE, and the migration to that software was as seamless as upgrading to phpBB 4.0, AND it was easier for the phpBB developers to make this happen than to develope phpBB 4.0 (the migration path already exists, and works well), then why would you not want this to happen? The only reasons I can think of are more in the interests of the phpBB developers wanting to hang on to phpBB than in the interests of phpBB users who want to get an improved system sooner rather than later.
No of course phpBB is not anywhere remotely near closing. I don't expect it will close. But I think it would be a reasonable thing to do, if it was in the interests of the users. In the model I've suggested, I genuinely think it could be in the interests of the users.
How long it takes extensions to migrate is not to do with phpBB but phpBB will of course support authors who wish to migrate/port their 3.0 MODs to 3.1 extensions and its not like other software's don't have this problem?
This is not a problem if moving to another software product that already has all the plugins people might want. Instant gratification as far as switching to real modular plugins go!
You say the extra features don't make an impact on speed/performance, I'm assuming you have benchmarks to back up this statement? As I can tell you there is no way it can be true. If phpBB added more and more features, it would decrease performance, as would happen to any other forum software which you add features too.
No, I did not say that. I said, IF. ie, IF extra features that are disabled don't add a performance hit, or interfere with the usability, then it would be reasonable to have them built in. Of course this is all a moot point once a real plugins system is in place.
Yes, developers are busy, but even if they weren't, I can't think of many developers that would agree to adding calendars and CMS' and blogs to the phpBB software, even if they had time, because its just bloat. If you want a forum software, then a forum software is what you can get. The core is the core. You add things onto a core. It is the piece of paper onto which you write/sketch the things the make your piece of paper different (MODs, Styles, Language Packs, Bridges etc).
I go back to my point, why should we merge? phpBB isn't doing badly? Just because development has been slower than a few people would want we should fold? phpBB is current the most used open source bulletin board software, and your telling us we should fold?
phpBB isn't doing badly? That's clearly a matter of opinion. There are several (locked) topics here that would suggest otherwise. If you think that phpBB 3.x being fairly stale feature-wise for 4 or 5 years is not doing badly, then you clearly have a very different world view than I do. It doesn't mean that either you or I are right or wrong. It merely means that it is clearly debatable whether phpBB is doing badly or not.
Again, I'm not suggesting that phpBB should merely fold (as in drop their users completely). I'm suggesting that they should consider what's in the best interests of their users, not what's in the best interests of the developers. I'm suggesting that the developers time could be better spent providing their users with a smooth migration path to another system which would be better than the current phpBB (in every way, if the phpBB developers also put effort into adding phpBB features to that other software).
Being the most used forums software is irrelevant. It seems to me that being the most used software
is what is important to some people. Having the best software
is more important to me. Making the best software available to the users in a timely manner
is what I would like to see as being important to phpBB. It is my belief that this could be best achieved by merging/folding/migrating into another product.
Of course I don't expect people to agree with me, but in at least some cases, that will be due to an emotional and/or technical investment in phpBB.