Link text as title instead of as url

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lince11
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Link text as title instead of as url

Post by lince11 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:46 am

Hi there,

When you put a link to a thread/post in the forum the text of the link appears like: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=403

It would be great if instead the text would be taken from the title of the thread/post as it would be much more explanatory of what you are linking.

BTW it's nice this idea forum.

Cheers :)

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View idea at: Link text as title instead of as url

Posted by lince11

Floyd
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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by Floyd » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:16 pm

When you put a link to a thread/post in the forum the text of the link appears like: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=403
You can create a formatted link such as...

Code: Select all

[url=https://www.phpbb.com/ideas/idea.php?id=336][color=blue]Idea Topic[/color][/url]
...which would display as Idea Topic
Entropy is maintenance free.

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AmigoJack
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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by AmigoJack » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:55 am

So far I haven't seen a implementation which could handle
  1. Post subject changes: editing a post can also change its subject - how to refactor all link titles to that post? [¹]
  2. Reading permissions: not everybody might be able to view the linked post/forum - how to avoid displaying information (post subject) that is meant to be hidden? [¹]
  3. Different forums/topics can have the same post subject: when displaying only the subject you can't distinguish between different posts without interaction.
[¹] Handling this by "just" looking up the post subject or permissions each time the link is about to be displayed would be a huge performance hit.
The worst thing about censorship is ███████████
Affin wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 am
The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly.
...
We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this.

lince11
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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by lince11 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:50 am

In reply to your post:

1. I don't think it's very usual to change the topic's subject.
If I have to choose between having 90% of the text of my links correct or having no text at all I would definitely choose to have the text on most of the links.
Also what happens if you make a link and then the post is removed ? would you suggest no to create links at all ?

2. Why would I post a link in a public forum than goes to a private forum when nobody would be able to access ? doesn't make much sense to me

3. I can't see this as a problem, you go over the link and see what you want. If there are topics with the same info why not have the same subject or the same link ?

What is wrong right now....

1. All the normal users in forums that are not IT related have no clue how to make a link so all links are just numbers and weird letters for them. Ugly and useless.

2. There's no way a user can know where a link is going without interaction as it's only made of a php file and some numbers and characters.

3. Horrible use on links for search engines

4. For people who know how to create the links with text is a hell of a work to maintain a forum if you want it to have links to different places in the forum.

Cheers :)

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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by Floyd » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:21 am

lince11 wrote:1. I don't think it's very usual to change the topic's subject.
Sometimes folks make some pretty bad spelling errors in a topic subject. I correct these when I come across them so it doesn't impact: 1. people trying to find info on a topic and 2. search bot indexing.
lince11 wrote:1. All the normal users in forums that are not IT related have no clue how to make a link so all links are just numbers and weird letters for them. Ugly and useless.
Start a FAQ topic on your forum and make it sticky. Your first FAQ can have a link to the BBCode FAQ.
lince11 wrote:3. Horrible use on links for search engines
phpBB SEO can help.
lince11 wrote:4. For people who know how to create the links with text is a hell of a work to maintain a forum if you want it to have links to different places in the forum.
You're right, moderators and admins should not waste their time changing links. However, with my point above, you can help your regular members learn to format their own links. Typically, one doesn't just post a link to a another post or topic. Members usually include some text that describes why they're posting the link and what can be found there.
Entropy is maintenance free.

lince11
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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by lince11 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:12 pm

We should be making users life easier not more complicated.

Trying to teach bbcode to everybody doesn't make any sense when it's so simple to include this into phpbb code.

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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by AmigoJack » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:09 am

There's a difference between posting a URI and posting a link: the former is plain text which can't be clicked, the latter is clickable. That's what the posting option "Do not automatically parse URLs" is for: by default it recognizes URIs and automatically encloses them in URL BBCode without giving them a title. And all this only works if the user is allowed to use BBCodes at all - if he can't, there's also not automatic "turn URI text into link" conversion.

If you say it's "so simple" you ignore detail issues yet again. Topics and posts can be moved, as user's forum reading permissions can change, hence a post subject can become an information which should not be given to selected users.

Reducing it to a naive mode the post options could have a new checkbox, like "Add post subject as title for local topic/post URLs", which of course would only affect viewtopic URIs.
The worst thing about censorship is ███████████
Affin wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 am
The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly.
...
We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this.

lince11
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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by lince11 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:16 am

AmigoJack wrote:There's a difference between posting a URI and posting a link: the former is plain text which can't be clicked, the latter is clickable. That's what the posting option "Do not automatically parse URLs" is for: by default it recognizes URIs and automatically encloses them in URL BBCode without giving them a title. And all this only works if the user is allowed to use BBCodes at all - if he can't, there's also not automatic "turn URI text into link" conversion.
This is not true. When I put an url it doesn't put it into the URL bbcode tag. It just takes it and uses it with the title viewtopic.php?x=x
If you say it's "so simple" you ignore detail issues yet again. Topics and posts can be moved, as user's forum reading permissions can change, hence a post subject can become an information which should not be given to selected users.
In general in internet when you create a link you never know what is gonna happen with the content, this is why you end up with 404, redirections etc. That doesn't mean you shouldn't create links, this doesn't make sense. Plus moved topics can be acceded with the old id.
Reducing it to a naive mode the post options could have a new checkbox, like "Add post subject as title for local topic/post URLs", which of course would only affect viewtopic URIs.
I think this would make it really complicated and you could end up with the same problem. Much better would be to give an option in the admin panel so the forum admin can decide if he wants titles used as link text.

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AmigoJack
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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by AmigoJack » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:02 pm

lince11 wrote:
AmigoJack wrote:recognizes URIs and automatically encloses them in URL BBCode
This is not true
You're right: the make_clickable is a separate feature.
lince11 wrote:In general in internet when you create a link you never know what is gonna happen with the content, this is why you end up with 404, redirections etc. That doesn't mean you shouldn't create links, this doesn't make sense. Plus moved topics can be acceded with the old id.
I think you misunderstood me: I never said phpBB URIs invalidate once posts are moved (in fact phpBB is one of the few who stick to W3C's Cool URIs don't change in contrast to others which only give loose 404s although they mostly know better and could give a 410 instead).

I meant once phpBB posts reside in another forum (of the same board) they may inherite restricted access permissions, as the target forum is not visible or readable to everyone. However, with your request, its post subject will still live on and as such bypass information disclosure. Or vice versa: posts from a private forum are moved to a public forum (of the same board) and most members would now see link titles they were never supposed to see.
lince11 wrote:this would make it really complicated and you could end up with the same problem
Why? Either the board installation already comes with the option ticked or it's very easy to modify the templates.
The worst thing about censorship is ███████████
Affin wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 am
The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly.
...
We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this.

lince11
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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by lince11 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:59 pm

AmigoJack wrote:I meant once phpBB posts reside in another forum (of the same board) they may inherite restricted access permissions, as the target forum is not visible or readable to everyone. However, with your request, its post subject will still live on and as such bypass information disclosure. Or vice versa: posts from a private forum are moved to a public forum (of the same board) and most members would now see link titles they were never supposed to see.[/url]
Well, when I create a link I usually always put the title of the thread as link so if some day I want the content of this link to be private I would have the same problem if the link stays public.

I don't think that making this process automatic would create any issue. Also giving the forum admin the change to activate or deactivate this option should make it "safe enough" (I don't think it's unsafe).
lince11 wrote:this would make it really complicated and you could end up with the same problem
Why? Either the board installation already comes with the option ticked or it's very easy to modify the templates.
If you let users control this feature and they disable it, then we would be in the same situation plus it's much more complicated than just creating one check box in the admin panel for the whole forum.

Also there could be another check option to allow/deny getting the titles from private forums.

antonjw2
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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by antonjw2 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:41 pm

This seems like a good idea. Anything readable helps the user to judge if they wish to click on it.

Could it be implemented as (in Viewtopic):

- Retrieve Internal URI from post
- Retrieve Subject of URI's thread
- If User has View Permission, display thread Subject as Link Text; else display the standard "no permissions" text string as link text.. in red :)

Is it a 'huge' performance hit? There are already many calls to the database to fetch posts, profile data, post counts etc... what's another db call or two to fetch a subject title?

Though I don't know if the permissions bit might be less performant and I might be over-simplifying that aspect.

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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by Master_Cylinder » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:54 pm

This was also suggested in area51:
Better Magic URLs

+1

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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by Big Mac » Sun May 25, 2014 9:14 pm

lince11 wrote:Trying to teach bbcode to everybody doesn't make any sense when it's so simple to include this into phpbb code.
I'm a bit confused by this suggestion. Maybe I've misunderstood you, but it seems that this suggestion is based on the fact that some users can not understand BB code.

BB code does take time to learn, but if the argument for this is that some users can not cope with URLs, then I'm afraid there is no hope for those users. If they can not copy and paste URLs into the URL tag, how are they going to understand what words they need to import into a URL tag.

One thing that I do think is very unintuitive about the URL tag (both in phpBB and other forum software) is that you generally need to add a "=" inside the opening tag. I think that sometimes people get confused by that. But, like I said, if people can not cope with that, sadly, there is no hope for them.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard

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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by Master_Cylinder » Mon May 26, 2014 8:52 am

AmigoJack wrote:So far I haven't seen a implementation which could handle
  1. Post subject changes: editing a post can also change its subject - how to refactor all link titles to that post? [¹]
  2. Reading permissions: not everybody might be able to view the linked post/forum - how to avoid displaying information (post subject) that is meant to be hidden? [¹]
  3. Different forums/topics can have the same post subject: when displaying only the subject you can't distinguish between different posts without interaction.
It doesn't have to be perfect to be better than what we have.
1) So what if the subject changes, the URL will be the same. Most members could figure it out and if they get confused they can ask.
2) Rules against linking private forum topics in public can take care of that. Even if allowed the subject doesn't always give much away. In some cases it might even be beneficial.
3) Again, so what? "insert common topic name here" is still better than "viewtopic.php?f=436&t=2200326" most of the time.

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Re: Link text as title instead of as url

Post by AmigoJack » Mon May 26, 2014 10:52 am

  1. Don't know why you argue on the URI - I wrote about the title.
  2. Master_Cylinder wrote:linking private forum topics in public
    Permissions can be individual. Your ambiguous words would mean to find the lowest common denominator of everybody's permission and every forum's permission either at post time (disadvantage: permissions can change later) or at print time (disadvantage: performance hit on always looking it up) just to have an indicator of "public". I haven't added my footnote [¹] for fun.
    Master_Cylinder wrote:doesn't always give much away
    That's subjective, even in multiple ways. Like saying "it doesn't always bleed that much".
  3. That's only your opinion. You'd be suprised which of these titles go to [3.0.x] MOD Writers Discussion and which are [3.0.x] MOD Requests:
    • "Watch" under "Who is online"?
    • Editing the style to separate sticky topics from normal ones
    • These two mods
    • Mod to display multiple frames
    • Mod Formel 1
    • Enter id of category in acp
    • Adding AdSense after x post
    • Multiple values for NEQ
The worst thing about censorship is ███████████
Affin wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 am
The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly.
...
We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this.

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