Should paintball be regulated like firearms?

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NarrowPathPilgrim
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Post by NarrowPathPilgrim »

FF8Jake` wrote:
NarrowPathPilgrim wrote:If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have them
Oh please, don't get this ignorant topic going in an even more ignorant direction. This isn't the past, and things have changed.

Would you perfer that I use a quote from a president?
Thomas Jefferson wrote: Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

Of course things have changed, But I am still ready to die for my God-given and Constitution-protected rights.
Your arguments just feed the anti-government private communty hicks living in the woods of Southern Oklahoma, threatening to shoot anything that "takes away their rights", while they refuse to pay taxes and tag the cars they drive.

They are only using their rights, what is wrong with that? As for the taxes, most of them are illegal, income tax for an example is the biggest theft that has ever been committed, it is TOTALLY illegal (see this site, this site, and this site). As for the shooting those who deny us our God-given rights, I would say this
Declaration of Independence wrote: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it
Samual Adams wrote: All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.
Patrick Henry wrote: It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

If you want to carry a gun that badly, go join the army or something.

Why should I? I have a right to bear arms!
I'm sorry, but that is the most neive statement I have ever heard. The American government can crush you like a bug in an instant. Heck, the American army could destroy most of the countries in the world in the matter of seconds should it want to(hey, you've got to admit, Iraq was no where near a display of the American army's power). No group of civillians cold do a thing, you are powerless, as are most citizens in most countries. Rarely has a civilian movement had any impact, with the exceptions of Lebenon and Ukrain recently, however they are far diferent countries compared to those in North America. If you want to tell George Dubya he's doing a crappy job by pointing a pistol in his face, I'll support you(heck, I wouldn't mine if you pulled the trigger) but realize that even if you had a group of 500-1000 you'd all be killed before even making it into the White House doors.

I am not going to tell you that you are wrong, but I am going to say "Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death" and give you this quote:
Daniel Webster wrote: No man can suffer too much, and no man can fall too soon, if he suffer or if he fall in defense of the liberties and Constitution of his country.
Samual Adams wrote: If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Post by Darth Wong »

NarrowPathPilgrim wrote: The reason that it is important for the people to bear arms is so that they can keep the Government (which derives its just powers by the governed) in order.
I believe that the above quotes explain that quite well.
James Madison Said The Following
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.

Once Again, This is only a very small amount of the quotes concerning this subject; I strongly recommend that you research the subject yourself.

What makes you think we haven't?

PS. James Madison lived in an era when the weapons used by the military infantryman were basically the same as the weapons used by crudely organized civilian militias. It would be a gigantic understatement to say that modern military technology has changed all of that. If you need "a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace" in order to tyrannize the people, then how did Saddam do it with only 2 of those 3 ingredients? The people of Iraq had the right to bear arms under Saddam, or didn't you know that?
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Post by Darth Wong »

NarrowPathPilgrim wrote: Of course things have changed, But I am still ready to die for my God-given and Constitution-protected rights.

In my experience, people who bravely say that they're "ready to die" for an abstract concept are generally BSing, ie- they're youngsters who would never say such an absurd thing 10 years down the road.
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Post by FF8Jake` »

Darth Wong wrote:
NarrowPathPilgrim wrote:Of course things have changed, But I am still ready to die for my God-given and Constitution-protected rights.

In my experience, people who bravely say that they're "ready to die" for an abstract concept are generally BSing, ie- they're youngsters who would never say such an absurd thing 10 years down the road.
Indeed. If you're "ready to die" for your rights, you had better get out there with the army and defend them, because the terrorists are going to take our rights away!~
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
Declaration of Independence wrote:
Samual Adams wrote:
Patrick Henry wrote:
Daniel Webster wrote:
Firstly, do you have a problem forming your own opinion about something? You're just defending something that is now stupid with some old quotes that aren't valid for today. Allow me to demonstrate...
Bill Gates wrote: A computer will never need more than 640K of RAM.
HOLY COW! Bill Gates said we'd never need more than 640K of RAM, and he runs teh microsoft! Obviously, he is correct, we'd never need more than 640K of RAM! Oh, wait...

Basically i'm saying I don't care how many founding fathers you quote, or how you cry about your rights being taken away. A gun is overkill for "protection", and your "keeping the government in order" line is just screaming "The president will do what my group wants, or we'll kill him". Really civilized. You should have a high ranking position in Social Conduct. :roll:
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Post by CLee »

Slimeboy wrote: Why should the average joe have a gun?

Why should the Average Joe have a microwave?
Why should the Average Joe have a television?
Why should the Average Joe own property instead of renting?

Ultimately, the question you are asking is a stupid one. But as to why should the Average Joe have a gun, because the 2nd Amendment allows him to. And that is all that needs to be said.
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Post by Darth Wong »

CLee wrote:
Slimeboy wrote:Why should the average joe have a gun?

Why should the Average Joe have a microwave?
Why should the Average Joe have a television?
Why should the Average Joe own property instead of renting?

Ultimately, the question you are asking is a stupid one. But as to why should the Average Joe have a gun, because the 2nd Amendment allows him to. And that is all that needs to be said.

Assuming you subscribe to the "if it's legal, then it must be right" philosophy.
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Post by CLee »

Darth Wong wrote: Assuming you subscribe to the "if it's legal, then it must be right" philosophy.

No, it's because I don't subscribe to the philosophy that the private ownership of firearms is inherently wrong.
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Post by Gud »

Personally I think it's my god given constitional right to be able to drive drunk. The goverment has no right to restrict what I can and can't do. :x :x :x
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Post by Canis_Latrans »

NarrowPathPilgrim wrote:
Second Amendment Of The US Constitution wrote:A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed

I think you bolded the wrong half of that statement. This is actually the first time I've seen or heard that first part. Gun lovers always seem to leave the bit about the militia being neccesary out. Perhaps because a civilian militia is no longer needed to maintain the "security of a free state"?

NarrowPathPilgrim wrote: Would you perfer that I use a quote from a president?

Because the president is never wrong?

NarrowPathPilgrim wrote: Of course things have changed, But I am still ready to die for my God-given and Constitution-protected rights.

Being an athiest, maybe I'm missing something. Which part of the bible gives Americans the right to carry guns?
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Post by CLee »

Gud wrote: Personally I think it's my god given constitional right to be able to drive drunk. The goverment has no right to restrict what I can and can't do. :x :x :x

How does this relate to firearms? And where is that "right" specifically enumerated in the Constitution?
bigshark wrote: I think you bolded the wrong half of that statement. This is actually the first time I've seen or heard that first part. Gun lovers always seem to leave the bit about the militia being neccesary out. Perhaps because a civilian militia is no longer needed to maintain the "security of a free state"?

The reason the first part of the 2nd Amendment isn't often quoted is because it states why it is in everyone's interests to have private ownership of firearms.
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Post by Canis_Latrans »

CLee wrote: How does this relate to firearms? And where is that "right" specifically enumerated in the Constitution?

I think if you take a closer look at Gud's post you'll find that it was laced with sarcasm.
CLee wrote:
bigshark wrote:I think you bolded the wrong half of that statement. This is actually the first time I've seen or heard that first part. Gun lovers always seem to leave the bit about the militia being neccesary out. Perhaps because a civilian militia is no longer needed to maintain the "security of a free state"?

The reason the first part of the 2nd Amendment isn't often quoted is because it states why it is in everyone's interests to have private ownership of firearms.

That's exactly what I just said. They don't quote that section because that section is no longer valid. Take a look around. There's no longer a threat of the British colonists attacking the United States. BTW, who's bigshark?
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Post by NarrowPathPilgrim »

Indeed. If you're "ready to die" for your rights, you had better get out there with the army and defend them, because the terrorists are going to take our rights away!~

I am not even going to debate this issue because it will take me forever to convince you, but I have researched for 100s of hours and I am now 100% certain that the US organized the 9/11 attack, please don't debate me on this though because this isn't the place, I suggest you research it yourself and would be glad to help you study it if you one of those who is actually seeking the truth. America Won't Fall Because Of Outside Terrorists, It Will Fall Because Of Inside Terrorists
You're just defending something that is now stupid with some old quotes that aren't valid for today. Allow me to demonstrate...

The quotes of the founding fathers aren’t valid? WOW, Just because some quotes (about something that is totally inapplicable) proves false, then that means that we are to discard the other quotes? This argument is perhaps one of the most common argument, but not because it actually has any value, but because it is so easy to use. But one thing is certain, and that is that thought time, nomatter what else changes, our rights will not change, the constitution may change but our rights as given to us by God will Never change.

why should the Average Joe have a gun, because the 2nd Amendment allows him to.

Well, this is why George Washington thought that it was important
George Washington wrote: A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.


Gud wrote: Personally I think it's my god given constitional right to be able to drive drunk. The goverment has no right to restrict what I can and can't do.

Well, it looks to me like you said this sarcastically, but if not, here is my rebuttal.
That is certainly not a God-given right:
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(note this is talking about drunkards as in one who has this as his common state. Getting drunk once doesn’t put you in this category, read Romans 14 for more info) and as for driving drunk being constitutionally protected, that depends on a lot of things, such as “Do you own the car?” the chances are (99.99%) that you don’t really own the car even though you think you do.
Canis_Latrans wrote: Because the president is never wrong?

Absolutely not, I think that there is a great deal wrong with the presidents of today, and if you have read the top of this post you will see that I even believe after extensive research that the government organized the 9/11 attack, but I also believe that those who founded this nation ought to be respected and their word took seriously, it is very clear that all of the founding fathers knew that a country with liberty will not last long if the people don't have the physical power to keep them in subjection.
Being an athiest, maybe I'm missing something. Which part of the bible gives Americans the right to carry guns?

Well, of course the Bible doesn't mention guns for reasons that are obvious, their are however certain verses that have the same principles. I don’t want to list all of the verses on this topic here, but you could read this book or this site as they address the same topic.
The reason the first part of the 2nd Amendment isn't often quoted is because it states why it is in everyone's interests to have private ownership of firearms.

The first part is just as important as the second, I highlighted the second because in that particular instance I was trying to make a point, but yes, the reason that we should bear arms as stated in the second amendment is for the militia (all able bodied male between 17 and 45) to keep our nation free and protect it from attacks from without and within.

Our society has been brainwashed by our schools and media who are trying to get us prepared for the new world order. Think about it, they have the young children of today in school 8 hours of the day and have all the time they want to successfully promote all of their propaganda, Adolf Hitler said "Give me the youth, and Germany will rule the World". Then for the rest of the day (when the children are at home) they brainwash them thought the media. We have been tricked, we are no longer a free nation, it is time for Americans to wake up and realize what state this country is in.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Post by Draegonis »

NarrowPathPilgrim wrote: I am not even going to debate this issue because it will take me forever to convince you ... please don't debate me on this though


I'll let you into a little secret here: If you don't want to debate a point, don't post it. Don't post offtopic points either. Image

PS: This means "stop derailing this topic now or I'll lock it".
NarrowPathPilgrim
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Post by NarrowPathPilgrim »

If you don't want to debate a point, don't post it. Don't post offtopic points either.

OK, I was actually willing to debate it; I just didn't think that was the appropriate place to do so.
PS: This means "stop derailing this topic now or I'll lock it".

I understand your point of view and appreciate the warning!
I won't post anymore in this topic unless you say so!

Thanks
Zach Doty
Last edited by NarrowPathPilgrim on Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by CLee »

[ Edited by Draegonis: Reply wasn't on topic ]
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