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Xamence
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Post by Xamence »

Yeah, 75,000 deaths or so caused by drinking is not going to temp the person to start drinking. But it's the addiction people cannot lose. The fact is, people do not intend to start drinking, but start drinking because of another reason eg Hang around in the pub. Drinking can also lead to vommiting, illness and much more. But these drinkers may not know this.

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Post by TerraFrost »

The way the US tries to discourage people from doing tobacco and alcohol seems kinda inconsistant to me.

Tobacco companies aren't allowed to make TV commercials because, I assume, the US government believes that they could encourage youth. So why are alcohol commercials allowed? Couldn't they encourage youth, too?

Further, if youth need to be protected from tobacco, then why is it that the age limit for buying tobacco products (18) is lower than the age limit for buying alcohol products (21)?

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Post by Pezzoni »

TerraFrost wrote: The way the US tries to discourage people from doing tobacco and alcohol seems kinda inconsistant to me.

Tobacco companies aren't allowed to make TV commercials because, I assume, the US government believes that they could encourage youth. So why are alcohol commercials allowed? Couldn't they encourage youth, too?

Further, if youth need to be protected from tobacco, then why is it that the age limit for buying tobacco products (18) is lower than the age limit for buying alcohol products (21)?

Because the soccer mums got to alcohol, but not tobacco yet.
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Post by adamsmark »

TerraFrost wrote: The way the US tries to discourage people from doing tobacco and alcohol seems kinda inconsistant to me.

Tobacco companies aren't allowed to make TV commercials because, I assume, the US government believes that they could encourage youth. So why are alcohol commercials allowed? Couldn't they encourage youth, too?

Further, if youth need to be protected from tobacco, then why is it that the age limit for buying tobacco products (18) is lower than the age limit for buying alcohol products (21)?


The decision to raise the drinking age wasn't arbitrary. The highways got a lot safer after the drinking age was raised to 21 nationally.
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Post by FF8Jake` »

TerraFrost wrote: Further, if youth need to be protected from tobacco, then why is it that the age limit for buying tobacco products (18) is lower than the age limit for buying alcohol products (21)?
Because cigarettes don't affect your brain in the way alcohol does? Kinda hard to get drunk off cigarettes. :)
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Post by MHobbit »

Darth Wong wrote: The CDC pegs the number of deaths attributable to alcohol lower than those attributable to tobacco, but it's still pretty hard not to be disturbed by 75,000 deaths per year.


However, even though the number of deaths due to alcohol is lower than those due to tobacco use, I personally still think that alcohol needs to be controlled further in some way.

Even the number of people who don't die directly from alcohol is probably somewhat higher than those who do (I'm guessing; if you have actual stats on this I'd be glad to read over them. However, both numbers are too high), I still don't see that as an excuse for not restricting alcohol further, or at least enforcing the laws that are already in place further.
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However, it's obvious that not all drugs are bad; just the illicit ones (like a couple other people or more have stated in this thread).
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Post by TC »

MennoniteHobbit wrote: However, it's obvious that not all drugs are bad; just the illicit ones (like a couple other people or more have stated in this thread).

how's that? i'd love to see how many deaths per year are resultant from marijuanna use compared to alcohol or tobacco, for example. feel free to ask DarkWing for help.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Marijuana is an interesting case. According to the CDC:
Centre for Disease Control wrote: Among the known or suspected chronic effects of marijuana are:
  1. short-term memory impairment and slowness of learning.
  2. impaired lung function similar to that found in cigarette smokers. Indications are that more serious effects, such as cancer and other lung disease, follow extended use.
  3. decreased sperm count and sperm motility.
  4. interference with ovulation and pre-natal development.
  5. impaired immune response.
  6. possible adverse effects on heart function.
  7. by-products of marijuana remaining in body fat for several weeks, with unknown consequences. The storage of these by-products increases the possiblilties for chronic, as well as residual, effects on performance, even after the acute reaction to the drug has worn off. Of special concern are the long-term developmental effects in children and adolescents, who are particularly vulnerable to the drug's behavioral and psychological effects. The "amotivational syndrome," characterized by a pattern of energy loss, diminished school performance, harmed parental relationships, and other behavorial disruptions, has been associated with prolonged marijuana use by young persons. Although more research is required, recent national surveys report that 40% of heavy users experience some or all of those symptoms.
The Public Health Service concludes that marijuana has a broad range of psychological and biological effects, many of which are dangerous and harmful to health, and it supports the major conclusion of the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine.

Interestingly enough, there is no mention of any estimates of actual deaths or years of life lost. Marijuana is also not as addictive as nicotine according to the medical research, so it is arguably a serious contradiction for tobacco to be legal while marijuana is illegal.
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Post by MHobbit »

TC wrote:
MennoniteHobbit wrote:However, it's obvious that not all drugs are bad; just the illicit ones (like a couple other people or more have stated in this thread).

how's that? i'd love to see how many deaths per year are resultant from marijuanna use compared to alcohol or tobacco, for example. feel free to ask DarkWing for help.


? Marijuana is both illicit, but can also be used for medical purposes, right? And marijuana is the "gateway drug" which can lead to use of other drugs.
Darth Wong wrote: so it is arguably a serious contradiction for tobacco to be legal while marijuana is illegal.


So, would you rather have tobacco being illegal, or marijuana legal? I personally think both should be illegal.
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Post by TC »

wow, that sure is a newsflash that kids that are doing drugs may not get along well with their parents. thanks CDC!

and hobbit, don't you think that making something that occurs naturally on the planet illegal is a wee bit, i don't know... unnatural? while other drugs (tobacco, alcohol) that require processing by major corporations are taxed? good thing too that alcohol is taxed, so that the government can afford to pave more roads for drunks to drive upon...
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Post by adamsmark »

Darth Wong wrote: Marijuana is an interesting case. According to the CDC:
Centre for Disease Control wrote:Among the known or suspected chronic effects of marijuana are:
  1. short-term memory impairment and slowness of learning.
  2. impaired lung function similar to that found in cigarette smokers. Indications are that more serious effects, such as cancer and other lung disease, follow extended use.
  3. decreased sperm count and sperm motility.
  4. interference with ovulation and pre-natal development.
  5. impaired immune response.
  6. possible adverse effects on heart function.
  7. by-products of marijuana remaining in body fat for several weeks, with unknown consequences. The storage of these by-products increases the possiblilties for chronic, as well as residual, effects on performance, even after the acute reaction to the drug has worn off. Of special concern are the long-term developmental effects in children and adolescents, who are particularly vulnerable to the drug's behavioral and psychological effects. The "amotivational syndrome," characterized by a pattern of energy loss, diminished school performance, harmed parental relationships, and other behavorial disruptions, has been associated with prolonged marijuana use by young persons. Although more research is required, recent national surveys report that 40% of heavy users experience some or all of those symptoms.
The Public Health Service concludes that marijuana has a broad range of psychological and biological effects, many of which are dangerous and harmful to health, and it supports the major conclusion of the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine.

Interestingly enough, there is no mention of any estimates of actual deaths or years of life lost. Marijuana is also not as addictive as nicotine according to the medical research, so it is arguably a serious contradiction for tobacco to be legal while marijuana is illegal.


You have a point, but does this really solve the problem? And, quite frankly, how widespread is marijuana use? I have a hard time believing that legal marijauan would not create a greater burden.
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Post by TerraFrost »

Because cigarettes don't affect your brain in the way alcohol does? Kinda hard to get drunk off cigarettes. :)

Then why are alcohol companies allowed to air commercials when tobacco companies aren't?
And marijuana is the "gateway drug" which can lead to use of other drugs.

Marijuana's only a "gateway drug" because it's illegal. If it were legal, than those who smoked it wouldn't be have to familairize themselves with "the underworld" to get it, and thus, they wouldn't know how to take advantage of the other things "the underworld" has to offer (ie. the other illegal drugs).

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Post by Magnotta »

Darth Wong wrote: Interestingly enough, there is no mention of any estimates of actual deaths or years of life lost. Marijuana is also not as addictive as nicotine according to the medical research, so it is arguably a serious contradiction for tobacco to be legal while marijuana is illegal.


The reason their is no mention of death's is because deaths resulting from marijuana alone is hard to find. Death due to smoking marijuana would be to the same results smoking cause, in other words lung cancer, so in the case that someone smoks both cigarette's and marijuana, it's very hard to say that "smoking weed" was the cause of the cancer. However, marijuana also has a sort of catch 22 situation when comparing it to the effects of smoking: a single joint is much more damaging to your lungs than a cigarette is as far as the actual amount of smoke is concerned, since their is no filter(this of course ignoring the extra chemicals in cigarettes), yet a person if very unlikely to smoke as much as many joints a day as someone would smoke a cigarette, so lung wise it's hard to find cases marijuana has resulted in lung cancer and so forth.

Another reason it's hard to find a death rate with marijuana is that unlike other illegal drugs, you can't actually overdose on it.

Reading the list of effects you posted, I find some of them interesting. While the first point is rather obvious, the last point about it staying in fat cells is rather interesting. It is actually somewhat of a myth, and I wish I could find the article again, but either, the THC from marijuana itself is not stored in fat cells, however there is another substance which abbreviated also in labeled THC, creating confusion which most anti-pot groups use in their favour(should I find any of the article's on that I will post them). However, that list is not as bad as some others I've seen, many of which include blatent lies and misleading facts.

adamsmark wrote: You have a point, but does this really solve the problem? And, quite frankly, how widespread is marijuana use? I have a hard time believing that legal marijauan would not create a greater burden.


marijuana use is quite common, particularily in most of the world. In the U.S. however marijuana seems to be tretaed as though it is just as serious as heroin. In select countires in eupope however you can buy it in coffee houses, and their has of course been much talk about de-criminalizing it in Canada. While I can't speak for other countries, I do know what marijuana use is like here, and it's really rather common and not though of much of an issue. I even know teachers who smoke pot.

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Post by MHobbit »

TerraFrost wrote: Marijuana's only a "gateway drug" because it's illegal. If it were legal, than those who smoked it wouldn't be have to familairize themselves with "the underworld" to get it, and thus, they wouldn't know how to take advantage of the other things "the underworld" has to offer (ie. the other illegal drugs).


Actually, it's also because those who take marijuana illegally usually want to try something "harder," which ends up getting them to take other illicit drugs.

Of course it varies from druggie to druggie, but I believe that that's the case.
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Post by adamsmark »

Magnotta wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Interestingly enough, there is no mention of any estimates of actual deaths or years of life lost. Marijuana is also not as addictive as nicotine according to the medical research, so it is arguably a serious contradiction for tobacco to be legal while marijuana is illegal.


The reason their is no mention of death's is because deaths resulting from marijuana alone is hard to find. Death due to smoking marijuana would be to the same results smoking cause, in other words lung cancer, so in the case that someone smoks both cigarette's and marijuana, it's very hard to say that "smoking weed" was the cause of the cancer. However, marijuana also has a sort of catch 22 situation when comparing it to the effects of smoking: a single joint is much more damaging to your lungs than a cigarette is as far as the actual amount of smoke is concerned, since their is no filter(this of course ignoring the extra chemicals in cigarettes), yet a person if very unlikely to smoke as much as many joints a day as someone would smoke a cigarette, so lung wise it's hard to find cases marijuana has resulted in lung cancer and so forth.

Another reason it's hard to find a death rate with marijuana is that unlike other illegal drugs, you can't actually overdose on it.

Reading the list of effects you posted, I find some of them interesting. While the first point is rather obvious, the last point about it staying in fat cells is rather interesting. It is actually somewhat of a myth, and I wish I could find the article again, but either, the THC from marijuana itself is not stored in fat cells, however there is another substance which abbreviated also in labeled THC, creating confusion which most anti-pot groups use in their favour(should I find any of the article's on that I will post them). However, that list is not as bad as some others I've seen, many of which include blatent lies and misleading facts.

adamsmark wrote: You have a point, but does this really solve the problem? And, quite frankly, how widespread is marijuana use? I have a hard time believing that legal marijauan would not create a greater burden.


marijuana use is quite common, particularily in most of the world. In the U.S. however marijuana seems to be tretaed as though it is just as serious as heroin. In select countires in eupope however you can buy it in coffee houses, and their has of course been much talk about de-criminalizing it in Canada. While I can't speak for other countries, I do know what marijuana use is like here, and it's really rather common and not though of much of an issue. I even know teachers who smoke pot.


I don't think anyone can argue that marijuana use is as common as smoking.
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