This is an intervention! :D

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KevC
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by KevC » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:39 am

AmigoJack wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:38 pm
Wolfydragon wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:54 pm
There is no way to make a global announcement without mods
I agree - sooner or later there is always the need to have something that can be changed instantly, without touching the templates. So far one could only abuse the board description for this.
That's been built in since 3.1.0
-:|:- Support Request Template -:|:-
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by Mick » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:24 am

Toxyy wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:48 pm
I think the OP is a request, Mick.
No, it was a tirade in phpBB Ideas originally where the rule of thumb is the same as anywhere else on this board, one subject one topic. If anyone wants to follow up on any of these items you just need to post them (one at a time) in phpBB Ideas.
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by paulie » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:26 am

Wow. phpBB. You don't like criticism do you.
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by RMcGirr83 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:42 am

Not sure where you got that from.
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by JimA » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:57 am

paulie wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:26 am
Wow. phpBB. You don't like criticism do you.
I think it's more here about the way it's being presented that makes it hard for us to make specific changes.

We have the Ideas Centre set up to for people to be able to request these changes. This is to let the community vote on what they want rather than us picking and choosing whatever we want to be in phpBB in a conscious effort to be more community minded.

Going by AmigoJack's summarization, there's almost 50 points in this post. Some of which I definitely agree with, and some of which I don't agree with. Regardless, this makes it very long and hard to read and do something with to structurally improve the project. Honestly, it does read more like a rant of everything the OP doesn't like than as an attempt to really try and pinpoint specific improvements.

It would be much more effective to submit specific small ideas to the Ideas Centre (such as: add BBCode/Smilies to quick reply). That way the community can vote on whether or not they like this idea and the developers can then choose (based primarily on those votes) whether to implement this feature request or not. Now it's simply the opinion of one person and there's no way to know the community opinion at large. Additionally, I would like to add that anybody that wants to do so can contribute code to phpBB can sending us a Pull Request on Github. The days that only people on our Development Team could create new features and contribute code are long gone. ;)
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by RMcGirr83 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:07 pm

JimA wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:57 am
[Additionally, I would like to add that anybody that wants to do so can contribute code to phpBB can sending us a Pull Request on Github. The days that only people on our Development Team could create new features and contribute code are long gone. ;)
As long as one opens a ticket in the tracker for it last I knew.
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by JimA » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:16 pm

Pull requests need to be linked to a tracker ticket, yes. You're right.

You could of course also develop a new feature linked to an existing ticket. That's all correct but besides my point. All I'm saying is that everybody that wants to can contribute code to phpBB. If anything is unclear on specific procedures, one only needs to ask. ;)
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by Holger » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:18 pm

I think phpBB can read a lot of whishes from a majority of phpBB users in that first post.
No need to feeling attacked or critizised.
I think there are a lot of good thoughts and ideas there!
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by RMcGirr83 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:33 pm

Where are you people getting this "attacked and criticised" thing from? I'm not seeing anything in here where anyone is acting defensively.

If the OP, or anyone else for that matter, thinks an item should be in core...then by all means, start an idea for it. Make it concise and complete without having to generate 16,868 characters to express the idea(s).
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by paulie » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:43 pm

RMcGirr83 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:33 pm
Where are you people getting this "attacked and criticised" thing from? I'm not seeing anything in here where anyone is acting defensively.

If the OP, or anyone else for that matter, thinks an item should be in core...then by all means, start an idea for it. Make it concise and complete without having to generate 16,868 characters to express the idea(s).
It isn't just in this forum though, there are what I would describe as 'snide' responses to genuine questions all over these Forums by people who should probably know a lot better.

On this topic alone, you have two team members who - instead of responding to the opening post with a little bit of thought - actually refer to it and dismiss it as a "a long kitchen sink rant" and a "tirade". It is neither. There are many interesting issues raised in the post and as this was moved to the 'Discussion' forum, one would have hoped some 'Discussion' would have ensued - as seen by Amigo Jack's excellent post. The last thing I would expect is a couple of throwaway comments by Team Members who are trying to be clever and end up failing miserably. A poor show by them. If they don't have the ability or capacity to respond with manners and a little civility, then perhaps they shouldn't be part of any 'Team'.

It's also sad to note that although the post was very interesting, the issues raised aren't actually being discussed anymore. Snide comments are certainly not my idea or understanding of the words 'Discussion' or 'Support'.
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by Mick » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:30 pm

The fifty or so points in the OP were neither relevant or irrelevant in my view, it was the delivery that was wrong. As I said earlier the phpBB Ideas forum is ‘one subject one topic’, it has to be otherwise how do you vote? The correct way in the first place would have been for the OP to post fifty ideas and let users vote on each one as is the democratic way. I don’t see where there’s a problem.
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by koraldon » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:44 pm

I think it is the wrong attitude to say that the Ideas board is the only way one can comment on phpbb.
I see that OP as a genuine effort, not to insult or harm but to give feedback and improve.
I think that some of the comments here try to belittle the OP, like saying he is basing his feedback on Xenforo (Which is one of the leading forum platforms this day) or saying that he is ranting.

For a different example, here on theadminzone - https://theadminzone.com/threads/xenfor ... nd.145851/ - you see users commenting on Xenforo, "ranting" in a similar way. The developer who is responding don't try to belittle them.

Regarding the Ideas, I have commented on it previously, but they don't seem moderated. I think somekind of a better workflow should be incorporated (add status like: Implemented/being implemented/to be implemented/rejected/on hold/ open for voting etc...)

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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by paulie » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:18 pm

Mick wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:30 pm
The fifty or so points in the OP were neither relevant or irrelevant in my view, it was the delivery that was wrong. As I said earlier the phpBB Ideas forum is ‘one subject one topic’, it has to be otherwise how do you vote? The correct way in the first place would have been for the OP to post fifty ideas and let users vote on each one as is the democratic way. I don’t see where there’s a problem.
You seriously don't see a problem expecting somebody to post 50 different 'Ideas'? That isn't going to happen in reality is it? No mention has been made by anyone about 'Voting'' on anything anyway. It's a long and interesting post higlighting the reasons as to why that particular Member is quitting using phpBB. I don't know the person who made the opening post, but I can definitely relate to and identify with some - not all - of the points he raised. I would have thought it would have been more prudent to actually read his concerns and maybe take some of those on board rather than mock the post itself or indeed the poster. Anybody can do that, it isn't smart or clever, in fact it's ignorant. You might not like or agree with what he has to say, but that doesn't justify mocking either the post or the poster. That isn't discussion.

The post is now in the 'Discussion' Forum and is by definition, up for open discussion. Unless of course phpBB is so precious, it isn't allowed to be criticised in any way by it's 'customers'?
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by RMcGirr83 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:43 am

paulie wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:18 pm
You seriously don't see a problem expecting somebody to post 50 different 'Ideas'?
I don't think anyone expected the OP to post a 16,868 character post.
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Re: This is an intervention! :D

Post by neufke » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:40 pm

I have actually read the entire post, smiled a lot and frowned sometimes and it all seems to come down to some remarks about feature requests (well, one can agree or disagree) AND... proSilver and.. I for one agree with that.... but don't we all. I think even the phpBB team(s) are considering proSilver in it's current form "oldish" So, to be short, i agree. :)

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