phpBB's spam prevention is sufficient. If that forum used the default CAPTCHA, then they are the ones that failed their users.Xerographica wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:03 pm I was really happy when a phpBB economics forum was recently created. Not too long afterwards though the forum got hit by a swarm of spam posters and it was shut down. From my perspective, improving phpBB's ability to prevent spam should be a high priority. But what should be an even higher priority is providing people with the opportunity to effectively signal how high a priority something should be.
phpBB doesn't have "donors".Xerographica wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:03 pm My suggestion is to give phpBB donors the opportunity to use their donated dollars to help prioritize development. This way people would have the opportunity to effectively signal how high a priority something should be.
Let's say that you buy hot coffee and spill it on yourself. Who/what failed? You? The container? The vendor? In any case, there's always room for improvement. People should have the opportunity to use their money to help determine where improvement is most needed.kinerity wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:51 pmphpBB's spam prevention is sufficient. If that forum used the default CAPTCHA, then they are the ones that failed their users.Xerographica wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:03 pm I was really happy when a phpBB economics forum was recently created. Not too long afterwards though the forum got hit by a swarm of spam posters and it was shut down. From my perspective, improving phpBB's ability to prevent spam should be a high priority. But what should be an even higher priority is providing people with the opportunity to effectively signal how high a priority something should be.
I don't see this as a very big obstacle. Do you?kinerity wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:51 pmphpBB doesn't have "donors".Xerographica wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:03 pm My suggestion is to give phpBB donors the opportunity to use their donated dollars to help prioritize development. This way people would have the opportunity to effectively signal how high a priority something should be.
phpBB has never taken donations. Multiple team members have stated that if users wish to give a monetary donation to give to OSU OSL.
It is a major obstacle if there are no donors. Yes you could create a system of donors but bear in mind that there are legal and tax ramifications.
I don't think it's very likely that there wouldn't be any donors.
I mean, if the local begonia society can overcome these obstacles I'm guessing that this community should also be able to.
The entire point would be for donors to change the dynamic of the product. The question is whether the change would be beneficial or detrimental.
Take this analogy:Xerographica wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:03 pm Let's say that you buy hot coffee and spill it on yourself. Who/what failed? You? The container? The vendor?
The voting on phpBB Ideas uses a complex algorithm to weight down votes, which results in up votes being more relevant. If you introduced a "voting by donation" system then it would, in effect, be the same as just using up votes. If you look at the Ideas forum you will see that there are many ideas that even though they have a lot of up votes they come way down the list due to the down votes.Xerographica wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:03 pm The problem with voting is that it doesn't reveal preference intensity.
That is not true - the goal depends on having an active discussion (which takes place on Area51) as to what the goal is and not allowing somebody to "buy" the goal. If you create a system whereby you can only contribute ideas if you pay for the privilege then you will not only stifle the community but destroy it.Xerographica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:15 am The goal is to eliminate the disparity between what phpBB is and what it should be. Achieving this goal depends on all of us having the opportunity to use our money to help determine what it should be.
Who wants their forums to be spammed? The spam protection should automatically be on and anybody can turn it off if they want to.david63 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:23 am I'm sorry but your whole argument is flawed.
Let's look atTake this analogy:Xerographica wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:03 pm Let's say that you buy hot coffee and spill it on yourself. Who/what failed? You? The container? The vendor?
The coffee cup manufacturer (= phpBB) provide a lid with the cup (= spam counter measures). The retailer of the coffee (= board Admin) does not put the lid on the coffee cup (= does not activate spam counter measures). You spill your coffee (= spam bot has access).
A dollar and a vote aren't the same thing. A vote doesn't cost you anything. A dollar costs you a dollar. Spending a dollar is more meaningful than casting a vote. Spending $5 dollars is a lot more meaningful than casting a vote. Again, voting doesn't reveal preference intensity.david63 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:23 amThe voting on phpBB Ideas uses a complex algorithm to weight down votes, which results in up votes being more relevant. If you introduced a "voting by donation" system then it would, in effect, be the same as just using up votes. If you look at the Ideas forum you will see that there are many ideas that even though they have a lot of up votes they come way down the list due to the down votes.
What leads you to believe that a vote reveals the size of the benefit?
I'm not saying that we get rid of this forum. Everybody could still use this forum to share as many ideas as they wanted. The difference is, donations would be used to prioritize ideas. Donors would use their donated dollars to rank ideas. If you wanted your idea to be ranked higher, then you'd have to spend your money on it and/or encourage others to do the same.david63 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:23 amThat is not true - the goal depends on having an active discussion (which takes place on Area51) as to what the goal is and not allowing somebody to "buy" the goal. If you create a system whereby you can only contribute ideas if you pay for the privilege then you will not only stifle the community but destroy it.
Somehow I missed the memo. Being able to use your money to support specific ideas really wouldn't destroy phpBB. Your garden isn't destroyed if you nurture the flowers rather than the weeds. Same thing with Kickstarter and DonorsChoose.david63 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:23 amIn any event the whole topic about donations was discussed at length about twelve months ago and at that time was considered to not be a viable option for phpBB - to expand it to the point where donations are paying for specifics would without doubt destroy phpBB.
It is on when the board is installed.Xerographica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:14 am Who wants their forums to be spammed? The spam protection should automatically be on and anybody can turn it off if they want to.
Boards usually shut down for various reasons... but perhaps in this case it was the last straw. Spam makes boards more work and nobody wants more work.KevC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:16 amIf a board shuts because of a bit of spam (and by the way you should be blaming the bot makers for that not the board software), then there's likely to have been something else fundamentally wrong with the board in terms of members, posts and subject that means no one wanted it to carry on.
But man has almost constant occasion for the help of his brethren, and it is in vain for him to expect it from their benevolence only. He will be more likely to prevail if he can interest their self-love in his favour, and show them that it is for their own advantage to do for him what he requires of them. Whoever offers to another a bargain of any kind, proposes to do this. Give me that which I want, and you shall have this which you want, is the meaning of every such offer; and it is in this manner that we obtain from one another the far greater part of those good offices which we stand in need of. It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages. Nobody but a beggar chuses to depend chiefly upon the benevolence of his fellow-citizens. - Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations
So we'd be better off if Nobel prizes weren't awarded?HiFiKabin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:30 pmAs for payment (or whatever you want to call it) I build extensions for the pleasure, the challenge and because I want to. If I was paid for that, it would become more of a chore and less of a pleasure.
Just my 2c of course. Other people have different views (hence paid for styles etc) but I know my particular involvement in phpBB would not be what it is had payment been offered.
The chance of having one would not interest me at all (nor any other award for that matter) Do people decide do behave in a particular way in order to be awarded a Victoria Cross/George Medal/whatever the US equivalent is. Of course they don't. They do it because they do it.Xerographica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:36 pmSo we'd be better off if Nobel prizes weren't awarded?HiFiKabin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:30 pmAs for payment (or whatever you want to call it) I build extensions for the pleasure, the challenge and because I want to. If I was paid for that, it would become more of a chore and less of a pleasure.
Just my 2c of course. Other people have different views (hence paid for styles etc) but I know my particular involvement in phpBB would not be what it is had payment been offered.
You initially said that the chance of being rewarded for your time and effort would demotivate you. Now you're arguing that people aren't motivated or demotivated by the chance of winning an award.HiFiKabin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:46 pmThe chance of having one would not interest me at all (nor any other award for that matter) Do people decide do behave in a particular way in order to be awarded a Victoria Cross/George Medal/whatever the US equivalent is. Of course they don't. They do it because they do it.
Am I comparing phpBB software with acts of bravery? No of course I am not, I am just stating MY position (and I suspect the vast majority of regulars on here)
After all, they don't get paid now and they still put the time and effort in.
It depends on your definition of 'benefit' When people say 'thank you' for what I have done, thats all the benefit I need.Xerographica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:03 pm
Should your behavior be influenced by the amount of benefit that people derive from it?