Updating Order

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Heo32
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Updating Order

Post by Heo32 »

I'm running phpBB 3.2.9. I plan on getting 3.2.10 once it comes out then jumping to 3.3.1 after it has been out for a little while.

My question is, after 3.2.10, would it be better to get 3.3.0 before 3.3.1, or would it be better (and safer/recommended) to go directly for 3.3.1?

I'm asking because I'd like to know if there are any improvements to the 3.3.1 installer since 3.3.0 came out, which may give a more reliable and guaranteed upgrade from 3.2.10. Maybe it doesn't even matter, but I thought I'd ask.
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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: Updating Order

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

when going from one major version to another ( 3.2 to 3.3 ), the installer simply updates the database.
there is no way to make it any more reliable than it is.

the proper way to upgrade and in my opinion, the proper way to update is to do a complet file replacement except for
the files/folders that are listed in the instructions to keep.
then run the databse update from the folder named install, then remove the folder named install and you are done.

doesn't get much simpler than that.

this applies as long as you have followed the update/upgrade instructions exactly and in order.

there is no telling when 3.2.10 will come out.
there is telling when 3.3.1 will come out.
waiting on the release of a new version when there is no telling when it is going to be released is
usually a waste of time.

luck,
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warmweer
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Re: Updating Order

Post by warmweer »

Heo32 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:48 pm
My question is, after 3.2.10, would it be better to get 3.3.0 before 3.3.1, or would it be better (and safer/recommended) to go directly for 3.3.1?
Actually it doesn't make much difference.
The migrations will run through all stages anyway.
Having said this, there have been some issues in the past (special cases) where updating from 3.0.x to 3.0.14 could solve an intermediate problem during the upgrade to 3.2. (but AFAIR these were caused by human manipulation rather than any update/upgrade procedure).
Frankly, if you're planning to upgrade to 3.3.latest anyway, I would do it in 1 step (it's not worth the extra trouble).
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Heo32
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Re: Updating Order

Post by Heo32 »

Thanks, guys.
warmweer wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:02 pm
Actually it doesn't make much difference.
The migrations will run through all stages anyway.
That's what I figured. But I've also seen Acyd Burn mention in the past that the phpBB 3.0.6 update was so big, it almost broke the updater. That is why I was considering an incremental upgrade of 3.2.10 to 3.3.0 first. Ideally, I would prefer to skip that step and go straight to 3.3.1.
warmweer wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:02 pm
there have been some issues in the past (special cases) where updating from 3.0.x to 3.0.14 could solve an intermediate problem during the upgrade to 3.2. (but AFAIR these were caused by human manipulation rather than any update/upgrade procedure).
I've seen those cases as well but did not know it was due to human manipulation. I thought it was the upgrade process itself which fails, possibly due to timeout issue. So going from the latest older release to the latest newer release should work.
warmweer wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:02 pm
Frankly, if you're planning to upgrade to 3.3.latest anyway, I would do it in 1 step (it's not worth the extra trouble).
I'm feeling better about this. I'll do that. Thanks again.
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Re: Updating Order

Post by BarneyC »

Why are you upgrading? Is there something broken in your installation that's been fixed? If not, why spend the time on an "upgrade"? It's just a few bug fixes that are unlikely to affect you.

I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade to 3.3; Im already running php 7.3, jquery 3 is nothing new or interesting and I couldn't care less about Twig or Symphony (except for wishing they didn't use them; symphony is what amateur programmers use because they don't know how to program; a 20 year old project should have goals of ripping that junk out; not upgrading it).

They're not adding compelling features, so why torture yourself? All you need is 1 extension or mod that doesnt work and you've just wasted a colossal amount of time.

I ask myself; is the new version worth the effort to upgrade? You'd be hard pressed to find another project so consumed with minutia. Wake me when 4.0 is out.
Last edited by Mick on Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed unnecessary full quoting
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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: Updating Order

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

how about the simple fact that shortly phpbb 3.2.x will no longer be updated and will hit EOL and end of support.

I suspect that you just don't know exactly what has been changed in 3.3 versus 3.2

telling people don't bother updating/upgrading is really not good advice .

also, there is no headache to doing an upgrade. it is very quick and simple when
you follow the instructions exactly and in order.


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Re: Updating Order

Post by Heo32 »

BarneyC,

I can tell that you're upset. Your rant was more of a complaint towards the developers than a reply to me. It is good to voice your thoughts and opinions because it shows you care about the phpBB project. But consider as well that they are doing their best, and they are all volunteers.

To reply to your statements:
  • I would be upgrading because all software has an EOL, and phpBB 3.2 has officially reached it as of July 6, 2020. Yet I know that they are also preparing to release phpBB 3.2.10 soon. Upgrading has nothing to do with a broken installation. It is about progression. phpBB 3.2 supports up to PHP 7.2, while phpBB 3.3 supports PHP 7.3 and PHP 7.4, with PHP 8.0 support coming for 3.3.1 before it's release. PHP 8.0 is being release on November 26, 2020, which means phpBB is ahead of schedule. And with PHP 7.4 support for phpBB 3.3, that means MySQL 8.0 can be used without the bug issue. Yet it would still be best to wait until phpBB 3.3.2 comes out first, since they've working on improved MySQL 8.0 support. All of this adds up to bug fixes, security patches, performance, support, features and stability. It bridges the future. Everyone should update and upgrade their forums whenever possible. And while they're at it, update and upgrade other software components of their website if they need to and if they can.
  • I don't really understand Sympohony or know what it does, but if it makes programming easier for developers, I'm all for it. phpBB has gotten so large and complex over the years, all while the use of forums and the number of staff going down the past 20 years or so, is it any surprise that they're looking for ways to make things easier on themselves?
  • This isn't torture. I actually have an update and upgrade plan for every software components of my website, with very specific dates in mind up to the year 2023 because I plan ahead and want to be prepared for the EOL of the software components for my website.
  • Updating and upgrading phpBB really isn't a big deal. It takes less than 5 minutes. So yeah, it is worth the effort. You're being rude about that 4.0 remark. Rather than complain, try getting involved and contribute if you have the skills to do so. If not, show some respect and keep silent.
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:30 pm
telling people don't bother updating/upgrading is really not good advice .
Anyone with common sense would agree with that. And I agree with you.
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stevemaury wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:16 pm
I went to your board and looked for an hour or so, but did not see the women without underwear.
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BarneyC
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Re: Updating Order

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I would be upgrading because all software has an EOL, and phpBB 3.2 has officially reached it as of July 6, 2020. Yet I know that they are also preparing to release phpBB 3.2.10 soon.
It's not supported now; if every issue has a solution of "upgrade to 3.3", then 3.2 is essentially dead.

How ridiculous is this project in general? They''re doing an EOL while still planning another release, and they haven't tested most of the extensions for 3.3. These are all good reasons to take a snapshot of the product and support it yourself. These are guys moving on without concern for the customer base, which is pretty typical in open source projects.
the proper way to upgrade and in my opinion, the proper way to update is to do a complet file replacement except for
the files/folders that are listed in the instructions to keep.
then run the databse update from the folder named install, then remove the folder named install and you are done.
This from the guy with no cell phone who can't make minor modifications for his "clients". Replacing all files requires that you re-do all of your modifications; the more mods you've made the more work "upgrading" is.

Since you don't have a smart phone, if you did, you'd know that most people don't install every update, because they end up breaking 3 apps and add "features" that you don't like or want. Newer is only better if it fixes something that is broken or adds something that you want.

There's really no point to using an open source project if you're not going to make any modifications; you might as well pay the $69 or whatever and use a commercial project that has real support. There's just a disjoint in the thinking here. Open source is a PIA because it's usually poorly supported but you can customize features and add things that are missing. If you're just using it out of the box and blindly installing updates, you're much better off with a project where they actually care about the people using the product.
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Re: Updating Order

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

I haven't seen it in years but I believe there is an award around here somewhere for the biggest moron of the year...

oh, here it is.
sorry, couldn't resist.
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Re: Updating Order

Post by stevemaury »

Please tell us where you see an indication that 3.2.x is EOL, because it isn't. Also, the whole idea of the 3.x line was to eliminate Mods and use extensions, which generally survive updates.
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BarneyC
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Re: Updating Order

Post by BarneyC »

Upgrading has nothing to do with a broken installation. It is about progression. phpBB 3.2 supports up to PHP 7.2, while phpBB 3.3 supports PHP 7.3 and PHP 7.4, with PHP 8.0 support coming for 3.3.1 before it's release.
I'm running 7.3.18 on 3.2.5 with no problems. 7.3 has some very annoying upgrade traits so if it was incompatible it would show rather quickly. I think maybe they're just pushing people to run 3.3. I didn't even know it was incompatible; I installed 3.2.5 under 7.0.x, hacked in a theme and then got sidetracked; meanwhile the server was upgrade to 7.3.18 and I've never seen a hiccup from PHPBB3.

To "fix" a system like phpBB3 to work in a newer PHP release usually is about a 1.5 pot of coffee project.
PHP 8.0 is being release on November 26, 2020, which means phpBB is ahead of schedule. And with PHP 7.4 support for phpBB 3.3, that means MySQL 8.0 can be used without the bug issue. Yet it would still be best to wait until phpBB 3.3.2 comes out first, since they've working on improved MySQL 8.0 support. All of this adds up to bug fixes, security patches, performance, support, features and stability. It bridges the future. Everyone should update and upgrade their forums whenever possible. And while they're at it, update and upgrade other software components of their website if they need to and if they can.
I'm surprised that you're running a big enough system that you care about mysql 8 or php 8 and you're using out of the box phpBB with no customization. phpBB isn't going to benefit much from either unless you have 1000s of simultaneous users posting. PHP8 doesn't interest me too much; the big pull for it is JIT, which isnt going to help much on a web system like PHPBB. I have phpBB installed on an old system with mysql 5.1 and another with 5.7 and there isn't much noticeable difference.
Updating and upgrading phpBB really isn't a big deal. It takes less than 5 minutes.
Except that your spending 100s of hours planning for it and thinking about it.
Last edited by BarneyC on Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BarneyC
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Re: Updating Order

Post by BarneyC »

stevemaury wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:43 pm
Please tell us where you see an indication that 3.2.x is EOL, because it isn't. Also, the whole idea of the 3.x line was to eliminate Mods and use extensions, which generally survive updates.
He probably heard it on Twitter :lol:
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Re: Updating Order

Post by STN »

BarneyC wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:50 pm
How ridiculous is this project in general? They''re doing an EOL while still planning another release, and they haven't tested most of the extensions for 3.3. These are all good reasons to take a snapshot of the product and support it yourself. These are guys moving on without concern for the customer base, which is pretty typical in open source projects.
Why not move on to xenforo and other forum software? They add whatever anyone requests to their core and has new features every release.

Your statements are just ridiculous and show your own ignorance. 3.3 is a huge upgrade over 3.2 and suggesting people shouldn't do it is ridiculous.

If coding using symphony is what kiddie do then why don't you make your own forums? It's all so easy.

Seems like you don't like phpbb at all, why don't you move on to something better? We're happy with the direction phpbb takes and want it to stay the same even a decade later.
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Re: Updating Order

Post by Heo32 »

stevemaury wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:43 pm
Please tell us where you see an indication that 3.2.x is EOL, because it isn't.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2534536
phpBB 3.2 will directly enter a reduced maintenance mode during which it will only receive changes for major issues as well as any security issues. The timetable for maintenance and security fixes is as follows:
  • End of Maintenance (EOM): April 6th, 2020
  • End of Life (EOL): July 6th, 2020
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stevemaury wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:16 pm
I went to your board and looked for an hour or so, but did not see the women without underwear.
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BarneyC
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Re: Updating Order

Post by BarneyC »

Why not move on to xenforo and other forum software? They add whatever anyone requests to their core and has new features every release.
This is the kind of thing dumb open source weenies say when they don't understand the debate. I'm arguing that you take a snapshot of open source projects and make them your own, and you're telling me to go to something commercial where I'm at the mercy of lesser programmers. It's completely backwards and ridiculous.
If coding using symphony is what kiddie do then why don't you make your own forums? It's all so easy.
Frameworks are for cranking out projects without having to put together all the glue. In 20 years a project should have its own code base. You build a website with bootstrap, and over time you rip it out and replace it with your own collection of components. symfony didn't exist before 2007. Who adds a framework to a 7 year old project?
Seems like you don't like phpbb at all, why don't you move on to something better? We're happy with the direction phpbb takes and want it to stay the same even a decade later.
Because you don't understand anything I've said. And who is "we", the 9 guys who post regularly on the forums?
Your statements are just ridiculous and show your own ignorance. 3.3 is a huge upgrade over 3.2 and suggesting people shouldn't do it is ridiculous.
There a 3.3 demo. What specifically should I look at to see the great new features? Please point me so I can experience this great upgrade first hand. It looked pretty much the same to me the last time I looked at it.
whatsnewphpbb3.jpg
Someone called this a "major upgrade", but this doc says its a minor upgrade. This is all internal plumbing.
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