3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Do not post support requests, bug reports or feature requests. Discuss phpBB here. Non-phpBB related discussion goes in General Discussion!
Scam Warning
Maxxt321
Registered User
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:46 pm

3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by Maxxt321 »

Dear PHPBB,

Why is it that a "maintenance and security update" needs so many files to be changed?

I planned to update our forum this evening, because I assumed with a small 0.0.1 update there would just be a few files in the "Changed Files" folder.
So that I could make the changes within a few minutes after backing up the forum at midnight when there is normally not much activity at the forum.

Unfortunately when I looked into the Changed Files for 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 folder. I was very surprised to see that there were a lot of files in the folders and also that the language pack has changed in a few places. Even the style files are again changed.
Those changes are not noted in the release highlights wiki page.

Why are you doing this with every update? Not just provide the files that have really been changed instead of needing almost 40% of the files to be changed.

I really do not understand this for whats presented as a small update.
If a car needs maintenance and security updates you change the filters and spark plugs and repair or renew your door lock. Not exchange almost half of the car...

Thank you for having to postpone the update...

For the next update: please be transparent about how big the update is, with every changed aspect clearly noted and not just change a lot of files without mention it on the highlights page.
User avatar
ssl
Registered User
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:15 pm
Location: France
Name: Fred
Contact:

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by ssl »

Hi
During an update you must use the complete pack and follow the procedure. Manual modifications are to be made for personal styles.
Sorry for my English ... I do my best!
User avatar
david63
Registered User
Posts: 18595
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:08 am
Location: Lancashire, UK
Contact:

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by david63 »

ssl wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:37 pm
During an update you must use the complete pack
That is not true - you can do the update by using either the changed files nor the patched files in addition to the full file option.
Maxxt321 wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:27 pm
Why is it that a "maintenance and security update" needs so many files to be changed?
Because there are many bug fixed as part of the update and a bug fix may affect one or many files.
Maxxt321 wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:27 pm
For the next update: please be transparent about how big the update is, with every changed aspect clearly noted and not just change a lot of files without mention it on the highlights page.
Every update/upgrade lists all all the changes/bug fixes that have been made althought I will accept that not every inividual code chane is listed although there is the ticket that can be followed to find out what the changes are if it is that important that you know the precise details.

Basically it makes no difference with an update if only one file has changed or if 100 files have changed - it is still the same procedure and takes the same amount of time.

If the reason that an update is difficult due to the fact that you have made changed to core files then that is the price that you have to pay fot not using extensions.
David
Remember: You only know what you know and - you don't know what you don't know!
My CDB Contributions | How to install an extension
I will not be accepting translations for any of my extensions in Github - please post any translations in the appropriate topic.
No support requests via PM or email as they will be ignored
User avatar
Darth Apple
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:25 am

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by Darth Apple »

Seemingly small updates can change A LOT of code under the hood. Much of that has to do with how programs and applications are written. It may seem as if one file has a specific task, and another file has a different task. And while that's true to an extent, it's not as if a feature lives entirely in one place. Everything is extremely tightly integrated. If you want to adjust even one small feature for something seemingly small, you may have to edit code in 20+ different places in order to accomplish it.

3.3.1 is a point release that has patches and bug fixes (and quite a few of them). The majority of these fixes must adjust numerous areas of code each amongst many files, so as you can imagine, it eventually adds up. An analogy is that it's akin to proofreading a paper for an assignment. You may only fix seemingly small things, but most of the sentences in your paper will be changed, adjusted, or slightly shifted in some way or another. Programming is very much the same way.

Just upload the upgrade as normal. Whether you have 10 files or 1,000 files, the process always stays the same. :)
User avatar
Lumpy Burgertushie
Registered User
Posts: 68305
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:11 am
Contact:

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

as long as you are not editing any of the core php etc. files, then the process is usually very easy and quick.
you simply replace all old files with new ones except for the few mentioned in the instructions.
run the database update and you are done in just a few minutes depending on your internet speed.


robert
I'm baaaaaccckkkk. still doing work on donation basis. PM your needs.

Premium phpBB 3.3 Styles by PlanetStyles.net

If nobody is in the forest, does a tree really fall?
User avatar
JoshyPHP
Code Contributor
Posts: 1177
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by JoshyPHP »

I don't think OP will read this because AFAICT this is just a rant from someone who has no intention of making any efforts. However, based on a quick glance at the changed files archive, it seems that it only contains some of phpBB's files but all of the vendor directory. So I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the script that generates the archive diffs phpBB's files but does not do the same with the files in the vendor directory.
I wrote the thing that does BBCodes in 3.2+.
User avatar
Lumpy Burgertushie
Registered User
Posts: 68305
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:11 am
Contact:

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

also, I seem to remember that there have been times when certain files in the vendor directory need to be removed and not just overwritten during an update.


robert
I'm baaaaaccckkkk. still doing work on donation basis. PM your needs.

Premium phpBB 3.3 Styles by PlanetStyles.net

If nobody is in the forest, does a tree really fall?
Maxxt321
Registered User
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:46 pm

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by Maxxt321 »

JoshyPHP wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:50 pm
I don't think OP will read this because AFAICT this is just a rant from someone who has no intention of making any efforts.
I can contradict with those thoughts. ;)
I am not just ranting, at least that is not my purpose.

I have looked up which files are changed and what the changes are.
Many files are just small typo's. Typical for a maintenance update, but not if almost all the files have these kind of small changes.

There are also changes in the language pack which I use. Which is very uncommon for a small update.
Those do not have a changed files update option and need to be re-installed completely.
I don't say that that is hard to do. But it takes extra time.

It also takes me extra time to investigate if the files that are changed are files that I have customized for my forum. And what the changes are (because you never know if you have changed that yourself in customizing)
Which are not many files but you get overwhelmed with the amount of files that have to be looked trough just because of a "small" update.
I was expecting it to be a small update with a few files to be changed and go on. So maybe a minute or 10. Not that I needed as much time as the big updates (from a much lower version for example)

What I don't like is that it is presented as a maintenance update, and almost 40% of the files have to be changed.
That is not a small maintenance update in my opinion.
(I know it is less of the total amount of files, but if you only take the folders with changed files, it is almost 40% of those folders)

I understand that a lot of small things add up. But if 40% of the files have to be changed because of that, it would be a 3.4 update and not a 3.3.1 update or they have to at least mention what amount of files need to be changed, so you have an idea of the size of the update.

I don't think it is a complicated update to do. It just takes more preparation and time to install the update than I was expecting from a 0.0.1 update.
Lesson learned... Don't expect any phpbb update to be a small one. Because it never is...

But I hope phpbb will read this and be more transparent about the size of the update in their update notification.
So every one can at least make an expectation of how much time and effort the update will take, before downloading and planning it.

My OP is also a warning for those who haven't updated yet and also expect that it is a small update.
User avatar
Lumpy Burgertushie
Registered User
Posts: 68305
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:11 am
Contact:

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

one thing is that phpbb does not really expect many people to need to worry about it since most people are not editing the core files since the introduction of extensions.
as mentioned, the current preferred method of update/upgrade is a complete file replacement except for the config.php file.
you have to save your attachments and images and anything in the folder named install that is important and that is it.
replace all the files, run the database install.

with this method, all updates and most upgrades are very simple and very quick.
for those that do decide to make their own core changes, then they should not expect any update/upgrade to be quick and easy

luck,
robert
I'm baaaaaccckkkk. still doing work on donation basis. PM your needs.

Premium phpBB 3.3 Styles by PlanetStyles.net

If nobody is in the forest, does a tree really fall?
User avatar
warmweer
Jr. Extension Validator
Posts: 5866
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:34 am
Location: Van Allen Bel ... gium

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by warmweer »

JoshyPHP wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:50 pm
However, based on a quick glance at the changed files archive, it seems that it only contains some of phpBB's files but all of the vendor directory.
Exactly: docs, install and vendor directories are complete in every single package and AFAIR (not going to check this) it's been like this ever since 3.1).
The recommendation (or instructions as per docs) is also to replace the vendor directory with every update/grade, whether is a small or a large update/grade.
Maxxt321 wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:02 pm
...
My OP is also a warning for those who haven't updated yet and also expect that it is a small update.
Small or large (update or upgrade), the question is: do you feel it's worth updating (fixing bugs, improving something or getting something extra). If the answer is NO, then don't update or upgrade (may be "forced" depending on the php version available). If the answer is YES, the size and number of files to download shouldn't really make a difference.
Spelling is freeware, which means you can use it for free.
On the other hand, it is not open source, which means you cannot change it or publish it in a modified form.
User avatar
david63
Registered User
Posts: 18595
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:08 am
Location: Lancashire, UK
Contact:

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by david63 »

Maxxt321 wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:02 pm
Many files are just small typo's. Typical for a maintenance update, but not if almost all the files have these kind of small changes.
So the other option would be to have many more updates with only a few changes in them rather than a few updates with many changes in them.

If there were to be many small updates then there would be complaints about the number of updates - not to mention that it would divert time from developing/maintaining phpBB to prepare each update.

Unless, of course, you have another suggestion.
David
Remember: You only know what you know and - you don't know what you don't know!
My CDB Contributions | How to install an extension
I will not be accepting translations for any of my extensions in Github - please post any translations in the appropriate topic.
No support requests via PM or email as they will be ignored
User avatar
JoshyPHP
Code Contributor
Posts: 1177
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by JoshyPHP »

Maxxt321 wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:02 pm
It also takes me extra time to investigate if the files that are changed are files that I have customized for my forum.
That's your issue right there: your workflow is inadequate. Every available documentation advise against modifying phpBB's files directly. If you want to modify the default style, create a custom style that extends it, or maybe use template events. If you want to extend a feature, do it via an extension. If you need a custom event, there's a procedure to request it. If everything else fails, fork phpBB and merge your changes automatically. You have to spend time manually checking for changes because you set it up that way. You don't control phpBB's workflow but you can change yours. Your best bet is to improve your own workflow beacuse I don't think too many people will jump at the opportunity to spend some of their time to save some of yours.
I wrote the thing that does BBCodes in 3.2+.
User avatar
ssl
Registered User
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:15 pm
Location: France
Name: Fred
Contact:

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by ssl »

david63 wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:05 pm
ssl wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:37 pm
During an update you must use the complete pack
That is not true - you can do the update by using either the changed files nor the patched files in addition to the full file option.
Yes, of course, so much so that this forum is full of members who encounter update problems!
Sorry for my English ... I do my best!
User avatar
warmweer
Jr. Extension Validator
Posts: 5866
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:34 am
Location: Van Allen Bel ... gium

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by warmweer »

ssl wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:09 pm
Yes, of course, so much so that this forum is full of members who encounter update problems!
I'ld be interested in seeing about that.

And the stats should include information about the cause of update failures: e.g. file edits/incompatible extensions/problems encountered with wrong version language files or styles. (BTW you did mention updates - not upgrades).
Spelling is freeware, which means you can use it for free.
On the other hand, it is not open source, which means you cannot change it or publish it in a modified form.
User avatar
eeji
Jr. Style Validator
Posts: 1311
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

Re: 3.3.0 to 3.3.1 update is bigger than expected

Post by eeji »

ssl wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:09 pm
Yes, of course, so much so that this forum is full of members who encounter update problems!
Of which most are caused by people using the unrecommended automatic update method because to the untrained eye looks easier because it says "automatic"
My phpBB styles: phpbbstyles.oo.gd
My board: iansvivarium.com
Post Reply

Return to “phpBB Discussion”