Softwares having Updates?

eipwlamzq · Post by **eipwlamzq** » Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:06 pm

Why do softwares such as phpbb has so many updates released over the period of time? I tried running a phpbb forum in the past but with so many software updates over 4 years period I decided to let the web hosting expire.

Lumpy Burgertushie · Post by **Lumpy Burgertushie** » Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:40 pm

updates are for your benefit.
so, the better question would be why do so many softwares not update very often to protect the users?
robert

warmweer · Post by **warmweer** » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:25 pm

eipwlamzq wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:06 pm Why do softwares such as phpbb has so many updates released over the period of time?

phpBB has less frequent updates than PHP .

How many updates do FF (and Opera, Chrome + other browsers) have?
And regarding browsers, consider Edge and extend that to Windows (probably 1 update per month)
What about software such as Notepad++, irfanview, etc.. ?

Gumboots · Post by **Gumboots** » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:16 pm

I think the OP's complaint is not so much with the number of updates, as with the effort required to keep up with them. Updates to browsers, and to Notepad++ for that matter, are quick and painless. Complete no-brainers.

Updates to phpBB are, invariably, a damned nuisance and require a lot of frigging around. That factor, combined with their frequent release, has obviously been enough to make the OP give up on using phpBB

My solution has been different. I simply ignore phpBB updates unless they contain critical security fixes. If an update is released to fix a critical exploit, I simply go to straight to that version, skipping all intermediate versions. This works well, and is a lot less frigging around.

And yes, I know the updates I don't bother with have things like extra events added (which I will never use) and fixes for various presentation bugs (which I don't care about since I have written my own presentation). However, I get to also miss out on things like the bugs that were introduced in 3.3.7, and have now had to be fixed in 3.3.8.

Lumpy Burgertushie · Post by **Lumpy Burgertushie** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:27 am

since the release of extensions, updating/upgrading has been very quick and simple.
you just replace the old files with new ones except for a few and run the database update.
the problem comes with updating styles and extensions and that is up to the style/extensions authors not the phpBB developers.

robert

Post by **Mick** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:20 am

And users don’t modify browsers and text editors like they do bulletin boards, they install Notepad++ and use it.

Gumboots · Post by **Gumboots** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:24 am

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:27 amsince the release of extensions, updating/upgrading has been very quick and simple.

You are taking pre-extension phpBB as the "normal" baseline, and comparing the current situation with that. I quite understand that you may be chuffed that it is considerably quicker and easier than what you were used to before the advent of extensions. However, the current situation is still a lot more frigging around* than a lot of other applications require, which is obviously why the dev team are planning to change phpBB to one click upgrades when that is feasible for them.

*Involving ftp'ing literally thousands of files into place, one at a time, for every update patch released, if you follow the official instructions. You can shortcut that process somewhat if you know what you are doing, but it's still a nuisance.

Post by **KevC** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:03 am

Gumboots wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:24 am *Involving ftp'ing literally thousands of files into place, one at a time

Any decent FTP application will do that for you in under 10 minutes. You don't have to sit there copying the files one at a time.

warmweer · Post by **warmweer** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:34 am

Gumboots wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:24 am ...
*Involving ftp'ing literally thousands of files into place, one at a time, for every update patch released, if you follow the official instructions. You can shortcut that process somewhat if you know what you are doing, but it's still a nuisance.

Shortcutting that process is fairly simple and no nuisance at all when using a good filemanager (2 windows or even 3).
It's all a matter of optimising the workflow and using the tool(s) suited for the action.

The argument for not using phpBB anymore because of frequent updates, is probably the weakest argument I've ever come across.

Post by **Mick** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:54 am

I’ve never understood the arguments against using FTP. It’s an easy transition from negotiating your way around a PC using something like file explorer to moving files using FTP. Uploading a few hundred files while making a cup of tea is a breeze. Maybe its some users lack of experience using proper computers that’s the issue?

david63 · Post by **david63** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:09 am

The problem here is that some people are comparing apples with oranges (other fruits are available!)

With a PC/laptop/tablet/mobile all updates are automatic, or semi automatic. They either download in the background and then update at some pre defined time (most operating systems) or alert you that there is a new version which you are encouraged to download and then click on a file to update (most PC type applications) - mobiles and iPads being slightly different in that they will do everything in the background.

With the likes of phpBB the situation is somewhat different in that it is run from a website which needs to be maintained (I know that there are a few where you do not have to do anything but I am taking about "proper" websites).

It is a bit like driving a car (PC updates) where just do the basics like putting petrol in the tank and maintaining the car (phpBB) where you have to "get your hands dirty" and fix things when they need fixing - which is why we (well at least me) take our cars to the garage to be fixed - the parallel being that if you cannot maintain your website then you either learn or pay somebody to do it.

warmweer · Post by **warmweer** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:13 am

david63 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:09 am The problem here is that some people are comparing apples with oranges (other fruits are available!)
...

True: phpBB is more like passionfruit

Gumboots · Post by **Gumboots** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:38 am

Ok, as I understand it, the dev team has a plan to eventually change phpBB so that it does one click upgrades (time and personnel permitting). I'm sure I remember reading about this in a topic here, although offhand I cannot remember which topic it was.

So, if I am not going bonkers, and if that actually is the plan, and if everyone else in this thread is insisting that the current way of doing updates is just fine and anyone complaining about it has no case, then logically everyone else in this thread would be thinking that the dev team's plan is silly and a waste of time, because the current system is fine.

In which case you don't want to argue with me. You want to go and argue with the devs.

If it turns out that you don't want to argue with the devs, and think an eventual change to one click upgrades is a good idea, then I do have to wonder why you are trying to argue with me.

Anyway, I can do phpBB updates. I have the ability. That's not an issue. But unlike most people here I have no passion for the software, and feel no need to defend it. It's just something I inherited when the admin on a site I use wanted to retire, and I undertook to keep the site running. To me phpBB is just another application among many. Looking into it has been interesting in some respects. Like most applications it has some good points, and it has some things about it that seem completely nuts. But it works, the members are used to using it, and I can safely ignore most of the updates to save bother, so the site is still running phpBB.

Post by **KevC** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:03 pm

I'd take an ACP 1-click automated update all day long. But it should be acknowledged that the advent of extensions has made conventional FTP updating so much easier.

warmweer · Post by **warmweer** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:38 pm

Gumboots wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:38 am So, if I am not going bonkers, and if that actually is the plan, and if everyone else in this thread is insisting that the current way of doing updates is just fine and anyone complaining about it has no case, then logically everyone else in this thread would be thinking that the dev team's plan is silly and a waste of time, because the current system is fine.

That's a bit shortsighted.
The plan is not silly, but it cannot cater for everyone's wishes. Nothing in the world is foolproof.
As long as custom code is allowed (this is not saying it shouldn't be allowed), auto-updates risk breaking stuff.
Similarly extensions are not always compatible with new (minor) versions of phpBB and the risk of breaking something will always remain (even validated extensions can have errors not noticed during testing).

Even now, there are extensions for 3.2 that function perfectly with 3.3 without any indication in the extension itself that they are 3.3 compatible (not necessarily in all and future minor versions). I can't envisage every extension compatible with 4.x.y being tested for compatibility with 4.x.y+1 before the release of 4.x.y+1.